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Old 01-30-2014, 12:29 PM  
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If we want more income equality.....

If we want more income equality, should we return to the economy of George W. Bush?
BY JIM LINDGREN
January 28 at 5:41 am

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Other things being equal, income equality is better than inequality. But other things are NOT equal. The easiest way to make incomes more equal in the short run is to have a recession.

Much has been made of growing income inequality since 1979, but very little attention has been paid to which of the four presidental administrations preceding Barack Obama increased income equality and which ones reduced it. In short, the two presidents whose terms involved improving income equality were the two George Bushes and the two whose terms were associated with worsening after-tax income equality were Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. It is probably not an accident that the two presidents in whose administrations the GDP grew the most were the two presidents whose time in office coincided with worsening income equality.

The president under whom the poorest quintile enjoyed the largest increase in after-tax household income was George W. Bush. And the two administrations under whom the richest quintile and richest 1 percent fared the worst were the two Presidents Bush. Among Barack Obama’s four immediate predecessors, the two biggest income equalizers were George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush.

Just to be clear, I am not pining for the good old days of the economy of George W. Bush.


But George W. Bush was the most successful of our recent past presidents in achieving very substantial increases in incomes for the poorest quintile (+18.4%), while keeping gains for the richest quintile and richest 1 percent at modest levels. For example, under Bush the Younger, the incomes of the richest 1 percent rose only 6.5 percent in eight years, compared to a staggering 84 percent under Clinton and 91 percent under Reagan.
If you would rather have Bill Clinton’s economy than George W. Bush’s economy – and I definitely would – then as a practical matter you probably don’t care overmuch about income equality.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...george-w-bush/
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:25 PM   #31
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I absolutely hate articles like this.

When you look at the declines in income for the top 1% during Bush Jr, it was driven by the tech bubble bursting in 2001 and then the crash of 2007-08. This analysis tells us nothing as to why these things happened and attributing these things to presidents absent tax cuts during their administrations (Raygun and Bush Jr) is ludicrous. In the case of Shrub Jr, his tax cuts (which disproportionately benefited the wealthy) are directly responsible for some of the growth in the income of the top 1% under Obama.

For Obama, who came into office in 2009, we have a huge rally in all assets which has driven the income growth for the top 1%.

Simply pointing to these statistics under different presidents tells us nothing.

What year did the Gov send out all of those rebate/stimulus checks so everybody could go buy a new TV? That was a fun year, the last time this Gov did anything fun. War on women and income inequality and amnesty is all a bunch of campaign blah blah blah. I want something fun from these hucksters. NOW!

Anyway, I watched this video recently that showed "the real truth" about wealth distribution in the US. I am trying to get my head around the whole wealth distribution thing and the income inequality battle cry. My current thought is that it's not so much an income inequality problem as it is what people do with that income. Are individuals with higher incomes more apt to invest? Yeah, probably. The market has been on a huge upswing the past 36 months or so, which would proliferate the gap between the haves (those that invest) and the have-nots (those that do little investing). Right? So the wealthier have got even more now due to this upswing. That doesn't necessarily make it an income disparity problem then. The rich got even more rich because of market factors and what they do with their money. These are just random thoughts I have been having on the matter since the SOTU speech.

I'll see if I can find that link. It has been troubling me since I watched it. It could be all BS AFAIK.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:50 PM   #32
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Is "income equality" supposed to mean that everyone makes the same amount of money, period? Has anyone said that is actually the goal?

No. You know the goal.

1) Demonize the top 20%. If lucky raise taxes so they have less. That is a win

2) Get the bottom 80 to think they win if the top gets taxed. Its smoke and mirrors. Sort of a "Im no better off but the rich are less rich. Forward.

3) The money raised in the tax will go to buddies and organizations. It will never benefit a soul.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:56 PM   #33
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No, the article didn't explain this. He just went over the contemporaneous statistics with zero context. He offers no explanations as to why the statistics came across as they did.

Not surprised that you think the actual causes are unimportant details.

Every farmyard used to have a rooster like you. Noisy ****er. Sort of squawky and belligerent. Produced nothing. You just ended up with him when you got day old chicks. All the hens laid eggs and contributed while he flopped in the dust and made noise till his head was lopped off and you fed him to the hogs.

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Old 01-30-2014, 03:01 PM   #34
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What the hell is "income equality?"
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:02 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
What the hell is "income equality?"
Shit man, I've asked in like 5 different posts. No one will tell me.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:03 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
What the hell is "income equality?"
Just like "climate change", "right to choose" and "fair share". Means nothing except it sounds really great to people who can't think for themselves or think they are the smartest in the room...
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:03 PM   #37
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Shit man, I've asked in like 5 different posts. No one will tell me.
Wow. A modicum of respect for you has been found. I hope this becomes a trend.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:08 PM   #38
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What year did the Gov send out all of those rebate/stimulus checks so everybody could go buy a new TV? That was a fun year, the last time this Gov did anything fun. War on women and income inequality and amnesty is all a bunch of campaign blah blah blah. I want something fun from these hucksters. NOW!

Anyway, I watched this video recently that showed "the real truth" about wealth distribution in the US. I am trying to get my head around the whole wealth distribution thing and the income inequality battle cry. My current thought is that it's not so much an income inequality problem as it is what people do with that income. Are individuals with higher incomes more apt to invest? Yeah, probably. The market has been on a huge upswing the past 36 months or so, which would proliferate the gap between the haves (those that invest) and the have-nots (those that do little investing). Right? So the wealthier have got even more now due to this upswing. That doesn't necessarily make it an income disparity problem then. The rich got even more rich because of market factors and what they do with their money. These are just random thoughts I have been having on the matter since the SOTU speech.

I'll see if I can find that link. It has been troubling me since I watched it. It could be all BS AFAIK.
Yes, the people who own financial assets (not the poor and middle class) have done quite well since 2009.

Our taxation on passive income should be higher than it is.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:08 PM   #39
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What the hell is "income equality?"
That's the beauty of it. There's no such thing, therefore the concept of income inequality can be a permanent campaign issue.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:10 PM   #40
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Wow. A modicum of respect for you has been found. I hope this becomes a trend.
Well then I take back whatever I said.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:20 PM   #41
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Just like "climate change", "right to choose" and "fair share". Means nothing except it sounds really great to people who can't think for themselves or think they are the smartest in the room...
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:23 PM   #42
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I don't think anyone has said that's the goal. Why do you ask?
He's lost his mind, he's gone full Maddow. It's kind of speeding up to PLAID.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:24 PM   #43
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Shit man, I've asked in like 5 different posts. No one will tell me.
How has Obama defined it?
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:31 PM   #44
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What the hell is "income equality?"
THey are talking in shorthand about how the income of the rich is growing even faster than the income of the working and poor.

It's not saying everyone should have the exact same income.

In extremely simplistic terms, it's more like if, on Day A I'm earning 40K and Joe Fatcat is earning 1M, then on Day B if I'm earning 80K, JoeFatcat should be earning around 2M, but not 10M
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:31 PM   #45
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If "economic equality" is not a goal, why do we hear so much about its "problematic" inverse, "income inequality?"

I'm having a hard time deciphering what is being perceived as the problem here. I guess if we add "extreme" income in-equality - that sounds dangerous, right? And so the inverse is what - "extreme" income equality? That sounds awfully communistic. And of course it is. So apparently what we need to do - if I'm following the argument correctly - is to find a moderate point between the two extremes of "unfettered capitalism" and "extreme income equality."

And THIS is the economic goal? This is a stupid paradigm is what it is.

Economically, we should be focused on one thing: Growth.

Socially, we should be focused on one thing: Justice.

Problem solved.

Mixing the two in order to find that uber-philosophy that keeps us in the egalitarian acceptability zone is a stupid way to run a country. Is there even such a zone?
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