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Old 01-30-2014, 11:29 AM  
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If we want more income equality.....

If we want more income equality, should we return to the economy of George W. Bush?
BY JIM LINDGREN
January 28 at 5:41 am

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Other things being equal, income equality is better than inequality. But other things are NOT equal. The easiest way to make incomes more equal in the short run is to have a recession.

Much has been made of growing income inequality since 1979, but very little attention has been paid to which of the four presidental administrations preceding Barack Obama increased income equality and which ones reduced it. In short, the two presidents whose terms involved improving income equality were the two George Bushes and the two whose terms were associated with worsening after-tax income equality were Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. It is probably not an accident that the two presidents in whose administrations the GDP grew the most were the two presidents whose time in office coincided with worsening income equality.

The president under whom the poorest quintile enjoyed the largest increase in after-tax household income was George W. Bush. And the two administrations under whom the richest quintile and richest 1 percent fared the worst were the two Presidents Bush. Among Barack Obama’s four immediate predecessors, the two biggest income equalizers were George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush.

Just to be clear, I am not pining for the good old days of the economy of George W. Bush.


But George W. Bush was the most successful of our recent past presidents in achieving very substantial increases in incomes for the poorest quintile (+18.4%), while keeping gains for the richest quintile and richest 1 percent at modest levels. For example, under Bush the Younger, the incomes of the richest 1 percent rose only 6.5 percent in eight years, compared to a staggering 84 percent under Clinton and 91 percent under Reagan.
If you would rather have Bill Clinton’s economy than George W. Bush’s economy – and I definitely would – then as a practical matter you probably don’t care overmuch about income equality.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...george-w-bush/
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:35 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
THey are talking in shorthand about how the income of the rich is growing even faster than the income of the working and poor.

It's not saying everyone should have the exact same income.

In extremely simplistic terms, it's more like if, on Day A I'm earning 40K and Joe Fatcat is earning 1M, then on Day B if I'm earning 80K, JoeFatcat should be earning around 2M, but not 10M
It's more about people like cosmo using any criticsim of Democrats push for less income inequality as some irrational product of reactionary RWNJism.
As if saying anything negative about the income inequality rhetoric being used by democrats is the same thing as yelling, "Y'all are just a bunch of MARXISTS!'
Which is essentially cosmo's posting style. Paint any criticism of Obama as faux outrage and irrational.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:35 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
THey are talking in shorthand about how the income of the rich is growing even faster than the income of the working and poor.

It's not saying everyone should have the exact same income.

In extremely simplistic terms, it's more like if, on Day A I'm earning 40K and Joe Fatcat is earning 1M, then on Day B if I'm earning 80K, JoeFatcat should be earning around 2M, but not 10M

Yeah... But I'm trying to figure out what the acceptable "equality" ratio is. Especially considering we're talking about a mixed paper/digital currency that can be manipulated at the whims of a central bank.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:39 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
It's more about people like cosmo using any criticsim of Democrats push for less income inequality as some irrational product of reactionary RWNJism.
As if saying anything negative about the income inequality rhetoric being used by democrats is the same thing as yelling, "Y'all are just a bunch of MARXISTS!'
Which is essentially cosmo's posting style. Paint any criticism of Obama as faux outrage and irrational.
I am aware. He's about to bring back Denise's 'squiggle' CP meme.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:41 PM   #49
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Yeah... But I'm trying to figure out what the acceptable "equality" ratio is. Especially considering we're talking about a mixed paper/digital currency that can be manipulated at the whims of a central bank.
Nowadays, people can make this pretty spreadsheets showing these income levels going here, and rich people's going WAY UP THERE.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:42 PM   #50
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Before I can make a point, I need to know what's being discussed. What does this alleged goal of "income equality" mean? That everyone makes the same income? And who is allegedly stating that this is a goal?
Ask your leader. He's the one who threw it out there.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:45 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
If "economic equality" is not a goal, why do we hear so much about its "problematic" inverse, "income inequality?"

I'm having a hard time deciphering what is being perceived as the problem here. I guess if we add "extreme" income in-equality - that sounds dangerous, right? And so the inverse is what - "extreme" income equality? That sounds awfully communistic. And of course it is. So apparently what we need to do - if I'm following the argument correctly - is to find a moderate point between the two extremes of "unfettered capitalism" and "extreme income equality."

And THIS is the economic goal? This is a stupid paradigm is what it is.

Economically, we should be focused on one thing: Growth.

Socially, we should be focused on one thing: Justice.

Problem solved.

Mixing the two in order to find that uber-philosophy that keeps us in the egalitarian acceptability zone is a stupid way to run a country. Is there even such a zone?
When income distribution is extremely tilted towards the wealthy as it is now, then economic growth is slowed and unstable. Color me not surprised that's another economic related occurrence that you are unfamiliar with.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:47 PM   #52
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Yeah... But I'm trying to figure out what the acceptable "equality" ratio is. Especially considering we're talking about a mixed paper/digital currency that can be manipulated at the whims of a central bank.
And there it is. When you don't understand it, just blame the fed.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:59 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
No, not better. Still implies that everything should be equal.

It seems like (and I'm open to correction on this) the right is trying to stick this "income equality" label on the left so they can use it for their "Ds are evil socialists" narrative. I've asked several times--who is using this "income equality" term? Who is saying it is a goal? Is anyone saying that everyone's income should be equal?
Democrats are using "income inequality" as a central talking point all over the place. Did someone at the DNC cut you out of the loop or something? Better check your junk folder.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:07 PM   #54
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Did someone at the DNC cut you out of the loop or something? Better check your junk folder.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:10 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
It's more about people like cosmo using any criticsim of Democrats push for less income inequality as some irrational product of reactionary RWNJism.
As if saying anything negative about the income inequality rhetoric being used by democrats is the same thing as yelling, "Y'all are just a bunch of MARXISTS!'
Which is essentially cosmo's posting style. Paint any criticism of Obama as faux outrage and irrational.
"They're all are just a bunch of MARXISTS!'
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:11 PM   #56
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When income distribution is extremely tilted towards the wealthy as it is now, then economic growth is slowed and unstable. Color me not surprised that's another economic related occurrence that you are unfamiliar with.
I'm always impressed at how smart you think you are.

Nothing you said is novel or surprising. But the question is what is causing that dynamic? And what's the end goal? Income equality? That's the question - what is the end goal? "Equitable income distribution," maybe? Well two questions: what does that even mean? And who is doing the distribution both now, and also in this future "equitable" utopia?

Fine, you've defined a symptom that needs to be treated - income distribution is extremely tilted towards the wealthy. Well why is that? Walk me through the money flow starting at the central bank, and explain to me what is happening with the dollars that they've been flooding into the market to make this "income inequality" paradigm a failed reality.

And then what's the solution to that problem?

Here's what I hear a lot of leftists ignoring ^THIS^ dynamic, but offering solutions to the problems that they fail to define. "You said something about The Fed - haha I refuse to engage on any intellectual level about their role in this, and instead will choose to laugh it off."

The symptom is not the problem. The problem is the problem. Don't tell me about the symptom. Tell me about what you want to do about the problem.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:13 PM   #57
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The symptom is not the problem. The problem is the problem. Don't tell me about the symptom. Tell me about what you want to do about the problem.
He will NEVER do that. Because he benefits from the problem. He's a special interest group member.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:26 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I'm always impressed at how smart you think you are.

Nothing you said is novel or surprising. But the question is what is causing that dynamic? And what's the end goal? Income equality? That's the question - what is the end goal? "Equitable income distribution," maybe? Well two questions: what does that even mean? And who is doing the distribution both now, and also in this future "equitable" utopia?

Fine, you've defined a symptom that needs to be treated - income distribution is extremely tilted towards the wealthy. Well why is that? Walk me through the money flow starting at the central bank, and explain to me what is happening with the dollars that they've been flooding into the market to make this "income inequality" paradigm a failed reality.

And then what's the solution to that problem?

Here's what I hear a lot of leftists ignoring ^THIS^ dynamic, but offering solutions to the problems that they fail to define. "You said something about The Fed - haha I refuse to engage on any intellectual level about their role in this, and instead will choose to laugh it off."

The symptom is not the problem. The problem is the problem. Don't tell me about the symptom. Tell me about what you want to do about the problem.
No, teej, not allowing you to blame your boogeyman, the Federal Reserve, for how income is distributed is not ignoring the Fed's role.

Explain how the Fed isn't at fault for the tilted wealth distribution under Raygun but it is since 2000.

Waving your hands in the air and saying "IT'S BECAUSE OF FIAT MONEY AND THE FED PRINTING MONEY." doesn't prove shit. It just shows how shallow your understanding of everything economics related.

You have your boogeyman and you will continue to blame him because that's what you do. You have zero interest in being connected to the real world and actually learning about these things. You would rather let LewRockwell.com and Ron Paul spoon feed you their talking points.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:50 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
It's more about people like cosmo using any criticsim of Democrats push for less income inequality as some irrational product of reactionary RWNJism.
As if saying anything negative about the income inequality rhetoric being used by democrats is the same thing as yelling, "Y'all are just a bunch of MARXISTS!'
Which is essentially cosmo's posting style. Paint any criticism of Obama as faux outrage and irrational.
All I did was ask what exactly you meant by it, and apparently that question was too complicated for all the people that were discussing it. Other than asking what was meant by it, I don't recall saying much more about it, yet you're using me as an example of someone pushing it.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:55 PM   #60
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He's lost his mind, he's gone full Maddow. It's kind of speeding up to PLAID.
I've never seen you so butthurt you're bringing it into other threads. Did you try calming down with some E! News like I suggested?
Why so crabby? Which reality baking show went on hiatus to put you in such a foul mood?
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