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Old 01-30-2014, 11:29 AM  
Prison Bitch Prison Bitch is offline
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If we want more income equality.....

If we want more income equality, should we return to the economy of George W. Bush?
BY JIM LINDGREN
January 28 at 5:41 am

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Other things being equal, income equality is better than inequality. But other things are NOT equal. The easiest way to make incomes more equal in the short run is to have a recession.

Much has been made of growing income inequality since 1979, but very little attention has been paid to which of the four presidental administrations preceding Barack Obama increased income equality and which ones reduced it. In short, the two presidents whose terms involved improving income equality were the two George Bushes and the two whose terms were associated with worsening after-tax income equality were Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. It is probably not an accident that the two presidents in whose administrations the GDP grew the most were the two presidents whose time in office coincided with worsening income equality.

The president under whom the poorest quintile enjoyed the largest increase in after-tax household income was George W. Bush. And the two administrations under whom the richest quintile and richest 1 percent fared the worst were the two Presidents Bush. Among Barack Obama’s four immediate predecessors, the two biggest income equalizers were George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush.

Just to be clear, I am not pining for the good old days of the economy of George W. Bush.


But George W. Bush was the most successful of our recent past presidents in achieving very substantial increases in incomes for the poorest quintile (+18.4%), while keeping gains for the richest quintile and richest 1 percent at modest levels. For example, under Bush the Younger, the incomes of the richest 1 percent rose only 6.5 percent in eight years, compared to a staggering 84 percent under Clinton and 91 percent under Reagan.
If you would rather have Bill Clinton’s economy than George W. Bush’s economy – and I definitely would – then as a practical matter you probably don’t care overmuch about income equality.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...george-w-bush/
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Old 02-01-2014, 07:32 AM   #121
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Now it's kind of clear why HE got shot...
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Old 02-01-2014, 07:47 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
So the worker still producing the work, even with technologies help, doesn't deserve more money to go along with more production?

Because we don't have complete automation. There are still workers required to meet demand.

And those workers are producing more, earning the company more money, without any of it being giving back to the workers, who are actually doing the producing.
What would be the point of having one worker producing 10 times the product if you pay them the same amount as you would have 10 people?
Why would a business ever invest in technology ? All the graph shows is how much the workers are paid as % of production. It is meaningless with regards to the standard of living of the people actually doing the work because in most cases there are less of them then there were before. Is a guy making 3 times the money or the same money running a safe computerized machine that puts coal in a blast furnace at 10 times the rate being cheated compared to his father that did it by hand with a shovel?

Likewise would you rather be paid 3% of $1,000,000 or 80% of 100,000?

Last edited by FishingRod; 02-01-2014 at 10:35 AM..
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:32 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
No, patty, I'm trying to figure out why, when he asked who is talking about income equality you answer with "didn't you get the memo, they talk about income inequality all the time."

But I guess you will run away like a coward from your own comments rather than explain what you meant.
I don't know what your confusion is so I can't help you understand. It seems pretty clear to me.
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:34 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
So the worker still producing the work, even with technologies help, doesn't deserve more money to go along with more production?

Because we don't have complete automation. There are still workers required to meet demand.

And those workers are producing more, earning the company more money, without any of it being giving back to the workers, who are actually doing the producing.
No, they don't. They're not the key to that production increase.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:10 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by GloryDayz View Post
Now it's kind of clear why HE got shot...

The opposition party declared it a "War On Women" and accused old Abe of being a misogynst. I'm sure of it.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:53 AM   #126
GloryDayz GloryDayz is offline
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The opposition party declared it a "War On Women" and accused old Abe of being a misogynst. I'm sure of it.
This was Abe's wife. Who, exactly, was the war on?

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Old 02-01-2014, 11:57 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
What would be the point of having one worker producing 10 times the product if you pay them the same amount as you would have 10 people?
This, here, is the crux of why Loneiguana's arguments, the same as Marx and the utopian socialists, have always failed to work. It destroys the incentive to produce or to work. So they eventually take down a whole economy to the lowest standards of living.
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:03 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
No, patty, I'm trying to figure out why, when he asked who is talking about income equality you answer with "didn't you get the memo, they talk about income inequality all the time."

But I guess you will run away like a coward from your own comments rather than explain what you meant.
The only people talking about "income equality" are you and cosmo claiming other people are, you imbecile.

Try getting your head out of your ass once in a while.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:33 AM   #129
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
What would be the point of having one worker producing 10 times the product if you pay them the same amount as you would have 10 people?

I never said that. I asked why, if they are producing more, therefore earning the company more money, why shouldn't the people actually doing the producing see some of that extra profit?

Don't make up things to argue against.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:34 AM   #130
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No, they don't. They're not the key to that production increase.
The workers are the ones doing the producing.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:38 AM   #131
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I don't know what your confusion is so I can't help you understand. It seems pretty clear to me.
I'm trying to figure out why you answered these questions:

Quote:
I've asked several times--who is using this "income equality" term? Who is saying it is a goal? Is anyone saying that everyone's income should be equal?
With this post:
Quote:
Democrats are using "income inequality" as a central talking point all over the place. Did someone at the DNC cut you out of the loop or something? Better check your junk folder.
How, patty, does discussing income inequality mean that equality is the goal?

That is what you implied in your post. You said we must not have gotten the memo.

So, explain how one automatically means the other.

Or run away from your own stupid comments because your are only here to distract and troll.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:39 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
The only people talking about "income equality" are you and cosmo claiming other people are, you imbecile.

Try getting your head out of your ass once in a while.
I've never talked about wanting income equality.

But you are the poster child for only being able to argue against opponents when you write their script for them.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:50 AM   #133
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
This, here, is the crux of why Loneiguana's arguments, the same as Marx and the utopian socialists, have always failed to work. It destroys the incentive to produce or to work. So they eventually take down a whole economy to the lowest standards of living.
Besides the fact your usually rant addresses nothing that is being discussed...

You are aware that Adam Smith approved of those doing the actual producing get paid for that right, not the people who owned stuff?

I doubt it.

He called it Rent Seeking. Maybe you have heard of the term?

Quote:
The practice of an individual, company, or government attempting to make a profit without making a product, producing wealth, or otherwise contributing to society. For example, a company may seek subsidies from the government, which would count as income for that company. Likewise, a government may seek rent by seizing control of natural resources and charging citizens for use. Some rent seeking is legal, while others, such as some forms of blackmail, are not. Rent-seeking behavior is most common when the rent seeker is also a monopoly or has sufficient economic or political power to act as one. The concept was originated by Adam Smith.
http://financial-dictionary.thefreed...m/Rent-Seeking

See, Taking all the profit that your workers earn would be Rent Seeking, especially if you are using "technology" as an excuse.

Smith talked about how you don't deserve a majority of the workers production because you own the land the factory is on... same thing with "technology".
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:18 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
I've never talked about wanting income equality.

But you are the poster child for only being able to argue against opponents when you write their script for them.
No one said you did, moron.

The thread title says "more". Yoy understand what the word "more" means, right?
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:48 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
What would be the point of having one worker producing 10 times the product if you pay them the same amount as you would have 10 people?
Why would a business ever invest in technology ? All the graph shows is how much the workers are paid as % of production. It is meaningless with regards to the standard of living of the people actually doing the work because in most cases there are less of them then there were before. Is a guy making 3 times the money or the same money running a safe computerized machine that puts coal in a blast furnace at 10 times the rate being cheated compared to his father that did it by hand with a shovel?

Likewise would you rather be paid 3% of $1,000,000 or 80% of 100,000?
One insurance policy to pay for (if you provide it). One retirement to provide for/put into. If you're a small company, you might be able to stay under the limit for the new healthcare laws. Across a larger company you might be able to save in the number of supervisors you need to hire to supervise those other people. There are many reasons.
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