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Old 01-31-2014, 06:25 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Income Inequality and the real reason it needs to be addressed

Okay, the Left loves to rant about "fairness" when it comes to income inequality but that's a bunch of liberal BS. So let's get past the emotional arguments of fair vs. unfair and address why and when income inequality becomes a bad thing.

There comes a point in just about every imaginable scenario where too much of a even a good thing becomes a bad thing. What we have seen in the last decade and even more so in the last 5-6 years is just that. What's good for the rich and big corporations is starting to become bad for the country as a whole. The middle class is being weeded out by liberal politicians as well as what is amounting to nothing more than corporate greed.

A financially healthy middle class is needed for a strong economy. Unfortunately that is not what we have nor are we headed on a path to getting back to healthy. The middle class is what drives this country and it is disappearing for all the wrong reasons. While big business is cutting jobs or import\exporting jobs, creating an environment of job insecurity and stagnant wages, liberal politicians are squeezing more money out of the middle class with their failed policies.

When you look at the last several years, everything has risen except 2 key factors, jobs and wages. The cost of gas has risen, the cost of food has risen, the cost of health care is rising and the stock market is rising. Meanwhile jobs and wages are doing dick.

There comes a point where "what's mine is mine" becomes a bad thing. The rich and big corporations who have enjoyed record profits and a rising stock market are doing so for what is tantamount to nothing more than a fleecing of the middle class. Companies have laid off thousands of workers to increase profits in the name of "shareholder value". As the record profits come in we seem trillions being spent on non-productive things such as share buy-backs and such. Couple with the Bernanke influenced environment of low interest rates, the rich and big corps are feasting while everyone in the middle class continues to famine.

I am a capitalist and a free-market kind of guy but I can also see what is happening right in front of our eyes. Corporations have no loyalty to their employees and thus in the long run their customers. Wall St. now dictates every move of these companies with their "quarterly earnings estimates" and companies are allowing it to happen.

The best analogy I can come up with to describe the problem is one of losing weight. If you are overweight then losing weight is good and healthy. However, losing too much weight becomes unhealthy and though your initial goal was to watch the scale go down the point comes when the scale going down is now bad. Companies have got to start valuing their employees more and their CEO's a little less. The "shareholders" in which whose name all this cutting and thievery is done will benefit just the same if not more so. A healthy employment base gives companies the consumer base they ultimately need to grow.

Right now as Democrats are pushing the Immigration Reform issue so the can garner more voters, the Chamber of Commerce and big business is championing the issue in the name of cheaper labor.

The middle class is running out of money, folks. The jobs are not coming fast enough, the pay is not rising fast enough and the job security is running away too fast.

So when it comes down to it, it is not about what's fair and what isn't. It's about what is healthy for this country's economy and what isn't.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:34 PM   #16
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
But it also seems like its true the other way around, if the top makes more the bottom makes the same, at best.

Trickle Down doesn't work, it just doesn't, the balls on a man like Reagan were GREAT for this country... but he had it wrong on that, the top hordes it, it doesn't work its way down.

I clearly don't understand how you "address" this. Thusly, Im going to watch the news and have glass of sparkling water.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
But it also seems like its true the other way around, if the top makes more the bottom makes the same, at best.

Trickle Down doesn't work, it just doesn't, the balls on a man like Reagan were GREAT for this country... but he had it wrong on that, the top hordes it, it doesn't work its way down.
What makes you think it doesn't work? Maybe you should start with what this so-called "trickle down" is?
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:36 PM   #18
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Why do you say this?
It's Simple economics. The middle class drives the economy.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
But it also seems like its true the other way around, if the top makes more the bottom makes the same, at best.

Trickle Down doesn't work, it just doesn't, the balls on a man like Reagan were GREAT for this country... but he had it wrong on that, the top hordes it, it doesn't work its way down.
Today is not a problem of hoarding, it's one of technology.

We've moved beyond the manufacturing boom/bust debacle.

Someone manufactures something people want/need, somehow, somewhere. However it's cheapest, who gives a ****?

The riches are to be made, instead of employing retailers and service providers, by employing a set of highly qualified computer programmers for a short time to produce an algorithm and platform to distribute those goods to people in the most efficient manner.

Walmart is a cutthroat form of the former business model, state of the art. Amazon spends a fraction of what Walmart does to distribute goods through the latter.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
It's Simple economics. The middle class drives the economy.
How? Explain it to me like I had the intellect of a Direckshun (hehe, j/k D).
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:38 PM   #21
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
But it also seems like its true the other way around, if the top makes more the bottom makes the same, at best.

Trickle Down doesn't work, it just doesn't, the balls on a man like Reagan were GREAT for this country... but he had it wrong on that, the top hordes it, it doesn't work its way down.
Reagan has it right but what people don't understand is that the trickle down theory works for both good and bad economic policy. People who subscribe to the trickle down theory tend to assume that only good economic policy is what trickles down
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Reagan has it right but what people don't understand is that the trickle down theory works for both good and bad economic policy. People who subscribe to the trickle down theory tend to assume that only good economic policy is what trickles down
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:44 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Today is not a problem of hoarding, it's one of technology.

We've moved beyond the manufacturing boom/bust debacle.

Someone manufactures something people want/need, somehow, somewhere. However it's cheapest, who gives a ****?

The riches are to be made, instead of employing retailers and service providers, by employing a set of highly qualified computer programmers for a short time to produce an algorithm and platform to distribute those goods to people in the most efficient manner.

Walmart is a cutthroat form of the former business model, state of the art. Amazon spends a fraction of what Walmart does to distribute goods through the latter.
This.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:44 PM   #24
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
How? Explain it to me like I had the intellect of a Direckshun (hehe, j/k D).
Say you're a small business owner. How many of your customers are going to be lower, middle and upper class?
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:45 PM   #25
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You can keep your income equality dream. I'd rather have freedom and free economies will always have unequal incomes because people have different talents and motivations.

This is all just a big distraction of the political class. The counties around Washington are the richest in the nation as they suckle off the tax teat and they dare to preach about equality?

The real devil that needs rooted out is the unholy ties between government and the financial sectors, the revolving door of favors and appointments between the treasury department and Wall Street. The tax code that promotes and encourages the extortion of campaign donations in return for favorable regulations and tax law.

The funneling of wealth to the few is not due to capitalism, but to gradual accumulation of power of the state. Economies never trend to MORE freedom. Therefore the rise in inequality cannot be due to that.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:50 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
This.
Did you see where Amazon is working on delivering your goods before you ask for them?

Basically, they're seeing an efficient business model in seeing

Oh, mylonsd ordered this on this day and this on this day and has been surfing x, y, and z sites in the past few days. Send a bundle of z to our local warehouse and when he actually goes and orders z, it's 5 miles away and he'll have it within the hour. If not, it'll sit there for a moment until someone else nearby orders it.

My guess is it's an expansion on Netflix's super secret colony of DVD warehouses they had all over the country about 5 years ago, so as soon as your returned DVD were logged back in, you got your next selection the next day in the mail.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:51 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by donkhater View Post
You can keep your income equality dream. I'd rather have freedom and free economies will always have unequal incomes because people have different talents and motivations.

This is all just a big distraction of the political class. The counties around Washington are the richest in the nation as they suckle off the tax teat and they dare to preach about equality?

The real devil that needs rooted out is the unholy ties between government and the financial sectors, the revolving door of favors and appointments between the treasury department and Wall Street. The tax code that promotes and encourages the extortion of campaign donations in return for favorable regulations and tax law.

The funneling of wealth to the few is not due to capitalism, but to gradual accumulation of power of the state. Economies never trend to MORE freedom. Therefore the rise in inequality cannot be due to that.
I think we might be saying the same thing differently. The problem is we are not even in the top 10 of economic freedom rankings. This is because of a combination of failed political policies and as you state, the funneling of wealth.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:52 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
I clearly don't understand how you "address" this. Thusly, Im going to watch the news and have glass of sparkling water.
I have no answers myself, but something is cockeyed right now and it surely isn't the middle/working class' willingness to earn their money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
What makes you think it doesn't work? Maybe you should start with what this so-called "trickle down" is?
Pat, c'mon... any reasonable news source will be the first to tell you that the middle class is in a world of hurt right now, those good paying jobs that created the best middle class/strongest country in the world are leaving this country by the dozens every year... you're not really arguing that, right? Just because I had something negative to say about one of Reagans policies? He is the father of that term is he not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Today is not a problem of hoarding, it's one of technology.

We've moved beyond the manufacturing boom/bust debacle.

Someone manufactures something people want/need, somehow, somewhere. However it's cheapest, who gives a ****?

The riches are to be made, instead of employing retailers and service providers, by employing a set of highly qualified computer programmers for a short time to produce an algorithm and platform to distribute those goods to people in the most efficient manner.

Walmart is a cutthroat form of the former business model, state of the art. Amazon spends a fraction of what Walmart does to distribute goods through the latter.
Here is a cold, robotically efficient post that helps me wrap my head around this, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Reagan has it right but what people don't understand is that the trickle down theory works for both good and bad economic policy. People who subscribe to the trickle down theory tend to assume that only good economic policy is what trickles down
The sense I'm getting is that questioning whats going on with this "global economy" is basically considered an attack on those who consider themselves "the haves"... don't like your place in the world Mister Middle Class? Well don't be comin for mine or questioning the way shit runs around here.

It doesn't have to and shouldn't be that way, but it seems like that's the way the rich see it... I don't think most people want their money, just the same shot at "the dream" that they had in the 60's-70's-80's, but it seems like when you try to say that you get this automatic defensive reaction.

People don't want YOURS, they want a shot at THEIRS.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:53 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Did you see where Amazon is working on delivering your goods before you ask for them?

Basically, they're seeing an efficient business model in seeing

Oh, mylonsd ordered this on this day and this on this day and has been surfing x, y, and z sites in the past few days. Send a bundle of z to our local warehouse and when he actually goes and orders z, it's 5 miles away and he'll have it within the hour.
Ok now you're starting to freak me out like you're H.G. Wells or something. I'm cancelling my Amazon Prime right now.
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Old 01-31-2014, 09:00 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Say you're a small business owner. How many of your customers are going to be lower, middle and upper class?
If we didn't have a middle class, they'd all be lower or upper. So, what makes a middle class so indispensable?
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