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Old 01-31-2014, 06:25 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Income Inequality and the real reason it needs to be addressed

Okay, the Left loves to rant about "fairness" when it comes to income inequality but that's a bunch of liberal BS. So let's get past the emotional arguments of fair vs. unfair and address why and when income inequality becomes a bad thing.

There comes a point in just about every imaginable scenario where too much of a even a good thing becomes a bad thing. What we have seen in the last decade and even more so in the last 5-6 years is just that. What's good for the rich and big corporations is starting to become bad for the country as a whole. The middle class is being weeded out by liberal politicians as well as what is amounting to nothing more than corporate greed.

A financially healthy middle class is needed for a strong economy. Unfortunately that is not what we have nor are we headed on a path to getting back to healthy. The middle class is what drives this country and it is disappearing for all the wrong reasons. While big business is cutting jobs or import\exporting jobs, creating an environment of job insecurity and stagnant wages, liberal politicians are squeezing more money out of the middle class with their failed policies.

When you look at the last several years, everything has risen except 2 key factors, jobs and wages. The cost of gas has risen, the cost of food has risen, the cost of health care is rising and the stock market is rising. Meanwhile jobs and wages are doing dick.

There comes a point where "what's mine is mine" becomes a bad thing. The rich and big corporations who have enjoyed record profits and a rising stock market are doing so for what is tantamount to nothing more than a fleecing of the middle class. Companies have laid off thousands of workers to increase profits in the name of "shareholder value". As the record profits come in we seem trillions being spent on non-productive things such as share buy-backs and such. Couple with the Bernanke influenced environment of low interest rates, the rich and big corps are feasting while everyone in the middle class continues to famine.

I am a capitalist and a free-market kind of guy but I can also see what is happening right in front of our eyes. Corporations have no loyalty to their employees and thus in the long run their customers. Wall St. now dictates every move of these companies with their "quarterly earnings estimates" and companies are allowing it to happen.

The best analogy I can come up with to describe the problem is one of losing weight. If you are overweight then losing weight is good and healthy. However, losing too much weight becomes unhealthy and though your initial goal was to watch the scale go down the point comes when the scale going down is now bad. Companies have got to start valuing their employees more and their CEO's a little less. The "shareholders" in which whose name all this cutting and thievery is done will benefit just the same if not more so. A healthy employment base gives companies the consumer base they ultimately need to grow.

Right now as Democrats are pushing the Immigration Reform issue so the can garner more voters, the Chamber of Commerce and big business is championing the issue in the name of cheaper labor.

The middle class is running out of money, folks. The jobs are not coming fast enough, the pay is not rising fast enough and the job security is running away too fast.

So when it comes down to it, it is not about what's fair and what isn't. It's about what is healthy for this country's economy and what isn't.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:07 PM   #121
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
And that is the fault of the top cause they made it and not the new bottom who somehow never caught a break. Shit
Well like I said earlier, if this is your attitude towards it then don't bitch when the Obama's hand out more government cheese to more people.

We have a saying in IT when users tell us they won't upgrade and stuff...

"You can do it now in the way that best suits you or you will do it later when we shove it down your throat at the worst possible time for you. Your choice."
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:09 PM   #122
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Well like I said earlier, if this is your attitude towards it then don't bitch when the Obama's hand out more government cheese to more people.

We have a saying in IT when users tell us they won't upgrade and stuff...

"You can do it now in the way that best suits you or you will do it later when we shove it down your throat at the worst possible time for you. Your choice."
Im still trying to understand what this "it" is that you refer to? Do what now?
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:14 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Im still trying to understand what this "it" is that you refer to? Do what now?
It is it. It is what it is. It's pretty simple.

In this case it is more or less self-governing corporate greed. When top execs and what not make millions at an increasing rate while their employees are denied raises, bonuses or are laid off then you are going to hand voters over to the Democrats. They can check themselves or as we are seeing, they can watch an emotionally fueled attack from the Left shove it down their throat, rightly or wrongly.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:25 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
It is it. It is what it is. It's pretty simple.

In this case it is more or less self-governing corporate greed. When top execs and what not make millions at an increasing rate while their employees are denied raises, bonuses or are laid off then you are going to hand voters over to the Democrats. They can check themselves or as we are seeing, they can watch an emotionally fueled attack from the Left shove it down their throat, rightly or wrongly.
So the issue comes down to corporations pay execs too much. If execs were paid less we would have more republicans or fewer democrats.
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:39 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
With all these things, how much mobility is there actually for a lower-wage employee who is honest to goodness trying to go places.
A recent study suggests that there is just as much upward mobility available in our economy today as there was 50 years ago.
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:40 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Im still trying to understand what this "it" is that you refer to? Do what now?
Petegz28 is the new Mr. Kotter.
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:28 AM   #127
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Just my two cents but it seemed no one in this country really gave a **** about income inequality 20 years ago. You worked for a living and if you didn't, too bad, you lose.

Obama gets elected and suddenly it's a major ****ing issue that no one can shut up about.

It's always been a "problem," but it used to be a problem that individuals solved for their own good. Now suddenly it's the government's responsibility?

**** that.
I find it interesting that prior to our worst financial disasters in this country income inequality was at its highest. And I don't think anybody is saying it is totally the government's responsibility though they could lead by example. The U.S. government is the largest employer in this country and probably the world so they could probably find wasteful programs and eliminate them and give their workers (not including Congress or POTUS) a nice raise especially military members. There is no reason why some military families are on food stamps, it is embarrassing.

Also middle-class incomes have been pretty much stagnant for the last 30-40 years and when you have upper management and CEO's making 200% more than their average worker that is a problem. I don't know have a solution other than shaming corporations but what I do know is that middle class families need a big fat raise.
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:36 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
I find it interesting that prior to our worst financial disasters in this country income inequality was at its highest.
How are you measuring that? Because I don't think it's true.

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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
And I don't think anybody is saying it is totally the government's responsibility though they could lead by example. The U.S. government is the largest employer in this country and probably the world so they could probably find wasteful programs and eliminate them and give their workers (not including Congress or POTUS) a nice raise especially military members. There is no reason why some military families are on food stamps, it is embarrassing.

Also middle-class incomes have been pretty much stagnant for the last 30-40 years and when you have upper management and CEO's making 200% more than their average worker that is a problem. I don't know have a solution other than shaming corporations but what I do know is that middle class families need a big fat raise.
How do you know it's a problem?
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:52 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
How are you measuring that? Because I don't think it's true.



How do you know it's a problem?
Here is a interesing piece about it.

Quote:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/...ic-crisis.html

Specifically, economics professors Saez (UC Berkeley) and Piketty (Paris School of Economics) show that the percentage of wealth held by the richest 1% of Americans peaked in 1928 and 2007 right before each crash:

I don't think the problem is CEO's making alot of money it is that middle class wages are stagnant and people can't get raises while upper management and CEO's do. As the graph shows the economy does better when the disparity is shorter. That is my opinion anyway.
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:24 AM   #130
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Much worse and he blames Wall street and the rich people instead of his fail at creating jobs.
Do you think it's Obama's responsibility to create jobs?
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:27 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
Here is a interesing piece about it.



I don't think the problem is CEO's making alot of money it is that middle class wages are stagnant and people can't get raises while upper management and CEO's do. As the graph shows the economy does better when the disparity is shorter. That is my opinion anyway.
Income inequality as measured by the gini coefficient is higher today than it was in 2007.

The graph doesn't tell us anything about causation. Based on the chart, we don't know whether income inequality is a symptom of a bad economy, a cause of a bad economy, or unrelated to a bad economy.
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:27 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
Here is a interesing piece about it.



I don't think the problem is CEO's making alot of money it is that middle class wages are stagnant and people can't get raises while upper management and CEO's do. As the graph shows the economy does better when the disparity is shorter. That is my opinion anyway.

People are getting raises. Where is the data that shows wages for individuals have remained stagnant?
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Old 02-03-2014, 10:01 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Income inequality as measured by the gini coefficient is higher today than it was in 2007.

The graph doesn't tell us anything about causation. Based on the chart, we don't know whether income inequality is a symptom of a bad economy, a cause of a bad economy, or unrelated to a bad economy.
Financial markets and tax policy drive income inequality.

When you have historically low tax rates on passive income, then you get extremely lopsided wealth distribution.
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Old 02-03-2014, 10:11 AM   #134
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Financial markets and tax policy drive income inequality.

When you have historically low tax rates on passive income, then you get extremely lopsided wealth distribution.
Even if that's true, it doesn't tell us anything about the relationship between income inequality and how the economy performs.
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Old 02-03-2014, 10:15 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Do you think it's Obama's responsibility to create jobs?
Obama seems to think so.
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