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Old 02-03-2014, 05:20 PM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Swedes Choosing Private Insurance over Socialize Medicine

While we Americans are getting coerced into utopian socialized medicine, with all the same problems coming as the Swedes found out. Swedes are opting out of their socialized medicine because they are fed up with it.

Per The Local's Swedish edition:
One in ten Swedes now has private health insurance, often through their employers, with some recipients stating it makes business sense to be seen quickly rather than languish in national health care queues.

More than half a million Swedes now have private health insurance, showed a new review from industry organization Swedish Insurance (Svensk Försäkring). In eight out of ten cases, the person's employer had offered them the private insurance deal.
The trend is growing and expected to continue growing despite the fact that Swedes already pay for their state-run version.

Native Swede Bernpainter wrote for the Mises Institute:
The Truth about SwedenCare:

“It was recently revealed in one of the major newspapers that doctors were told to prioritize patients based on their value as future taxpayers,” he wrote. “Old people naturally have a low future-taxpayer-value, so they naturally became low priority in the machine and less likely to receive proper treatment.”

http://mises.org/daily/6476/
The above is coming soon to America as is the following:

Bernpainter also points out how SwedenCare started in the same report. It was originally for the poor, but eventually wiped out private options with doctors either leaving the profession or becoming unemployed. Before the utopian project started Sweden had some of the lowest taxes in the world and was tops in standard of living. Later it became the second highest in taxes with "periods of rampant inflation, and a steadily deteriorating economy." [It has begun to liberalize to more market based to its credit to ameliorate their problems.]

Nice touch!
'Medical mistakes kill 3,000 Swedes a year'

... the case of ambulance drivers who took a lunch break instead of responding to a call...

The patient, who was having trouble breathing, died.

Since these deaths are occurring within a state-run healthcare system, “individual cases rarely lead to any widespread debate about patient safety because it takes so long for the National Board of Health and Welfare ... to process the cases.”

http://www.thelocal.se/20110418/33260

Plus in Sweden their politicians have private health care that is paid for by taxpayers.” Just as in America, Congress exempts itself from ObamaCare.
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:04 PM   #2
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post

Plus in Sweden their politicians have private health care that is paid for by taxpayers.” Just as in America, Congress exempts itself from ObamaCare.
Is "Obamacare" not purchased from a private insurance company?
And, Congress is not exempt from the health care law.
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:58 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Is "Obamacare" not purchased from a private insurance company?
And, Congress is not exempt from the health care law.
You know damn well Obamacare is the first step towards single payer.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:02 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
And, Congress is not exempt from the health care law.

link?
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:13 AM   #5
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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link?
Turns out it's not as black and white as cosmos claims. Congress has been trying to behind closed doors. They also re-introduce such things later, like burying it with a bunch of other legislation. Plus, Reid blocked a bill subjecting Congress to ACA.

Obamacare: Is Congress Playing By The Same Rules?


http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatt...nal-exemption/
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:45 AM   #6
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by jjjayb View Post
You know damn well Obamacare is the first step towards single payer.
Single payer would likely be better, but what does that have to do with what I said?
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:49 AM   #7
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by Fairplay View Post
link?
The ACA requires everyone to have insurance. Either you have it on your own--through your employer or something you bought on your own, or you can sign up through the exchanges. Members of Congress are not exempt from the rule that you have to have insurance. You can look up the links.
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As long as Jesus Christ was the president of the US and approved of it Yes.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:51 AM   #8
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Turns out it's not as black and white as cosmos claims. Congress has been trying to behind closed doors. They also re-introduce such things later, like burying it with a bunch of other legislation. Plus, Reid blocked a bill subjecting Congress to ACA.

Obamacare: Is Congress Playing By The Same Rules?


http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatt...nal-exemption/
Members of Congress are subject to the ACA. They have to have insurance like everyone else. Saying they are exempt from the ACA would be like saying I'm exempt from the ACA.

I'd like it noted that this isn't shilling; it's not defending; it is correcting a moron.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:18 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Members of Congress are subject to the ACA. They have to have insurance like everyone else. Saying they are exempt from the ACA would be like saying I'm exempt from the ACA.

I'd like it noted that this isn't shilling; it's not defending; it is correcting a moron.
Are they required to get their insurance from the Obamacare health exchanges? Do they get huge guaranteed subsidies? Is there a possibility they will lose their doctor of choice?
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:28 PM   #10
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Are they required to get their insurance from the Obamacare health exchanges? Do they get huge guaranteed subsidies? Is there a possibility they will lose their doctor of choice?
That is a separate question from whether they are subject to the law. The exchanges are one option of acquiring insurance. I don't know the current status of the plans available to Congress. Like I said, someone who pays for the insurance offered through their employer is "exempt" from the exchanges, but that doesn't seem like an accurate way of describing the situation. With any insurance plan, there is never a guarantee that your doctor of choice will remain in the network.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:39 PM   #11
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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That is a separate question from whether they are subject to the law. The exchanges are one option of acquiring insurance. I don't know the current status of the plans available to Congress. Like I said, someone who pays for the insurance offered through their employer is "exempt" from the exchanges, but that doesn't seem like an accurate way of describing the situation. With any insurance plan, there is never a guarantee that your doctor of choice will remain in the network.
The impact of employer provided coverage cannot be measured. Lets see where we are when the entire law is enforced. Forget the legality of that as it is beside the point. There is completely different set of rules inplay here and to deny it is disingenuous~
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
'Medical mistakes kill 3,000 Swedes a year'

... the case of ambulance drivers who took a lunch break instead of responding to a call...

The patient, who was having trouble breathing, died.

Since these deaths are occurring within a state-run healthcare system, “individual cases rarely lead to any widespread debate about patient safety because it takes so long for the National Board of Health and Welfare ... to process the cases.”

http://www.thelocal.se/20110418/33260[/indent]

Plus in Sweden their politicians have private health care that is paid for by taxpayers.” Just as in America, Congress exempts itself from ObamaCare.
Seems pretty low compared to the 440,000 (2007) deaths in the USA caused by medical mistakes. 210,000 is the low end of the estimate, which is still ****ing high.

In Sweden that comes down to 1 death for every 3200+ citizens. The US is 1 death for every 1400+ citizens (at the low end of the estimation). A majority of medical mistakes come down to a stupid skipped step or forgotten sponge that leads to infection. Cranking those patients through as fast as possible would definitely increase profits for a hospital.

Edit: Sweden's wait times for specialists in 2010 was slightly lower than in the US.

The wait for elective surgery in Sweden is the same as the US in 2010.

The US has the worst waiting times among major EU countries and Canada.

So the US form of privatized health care is certainly something that countries should strive for.
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:33 PM   #13
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You know damn well Obamacare is the first step towards single payer.
No problem here with single payer.
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:41 PM   #14
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No problem here with single payer.
It will never happen. The reason Obama dropped it like an important career initiative is because the CBO estimated the costs to be astronomical in comparison to what they were able to get out of the former Heritage plan. It was an economic disaster, so they moved away from it.
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:20 PM   #15
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Seems pretty low compared to the 440,000 (2007) deaths in the USA caused by medical mistakes. 210,000 is the low end of the estimate, which is still ****ing high.

In Sweden that comes down to 1 death for every 3200+ citizens. The US is 1 death for every 1400+ citizens (at the low end of the estimation). A majority of medical mistakes come down to a stupid skipped step or forgotten sponge that leads to infection. Cranking those patients through as fast as possible would definitely increase profits for a hospital.

Edit: Sweden's wait times for specialists in 2010 was slightly lower than in the US.

The wait for elective surgery in Sweden is the same as the US in 2010.

The US has the worst waiting times among major EU countries and Canada.

So the US form of privatized health care is certainly something that countries should strive for.
Let's not forget that America's system has been semi-socialized already. So no, I don't advocate that. There's been over 2000 got mandates on insurance pushing up costs as it pushes up the demand curve. And I doubt that the wait times are the same for elective surgery. If they aren't for argument's sake, then the Swedes still think that's not good enough.

The fact is Swedes are still fed up with their nationalized system...and the trend is growing along with their trend to free their economy toward a more market based one. That's called voting with ones feet in the market.
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