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Old 02-04-2014, 08:36 AM  
Cochise Cochise is offline
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CBO: Obamacare will push 2 million workers out of labor market

Obamacare will push 2 million workers out of labor market: CBO
By Stephen Dinan -The Washington Times
Tuesday, February 4, 2014

Obamacare will push the equivalent of about 2 million workers out of the labor market by 2017 as employees decide either to work fewer hours or drop out altogether, according to the latest estimates Tuesday from the Congressional Budget Office.

That’s a major jump in the nonpartisan budget agency’s projections and it suggests the health care law’s incentives are driving businesses and people to choose government-sponsored benefits rather than work.

“CBO estimates that the ACA will reduce the total number of hours worked, on net, by about 1.5 to 2 percent during the period from 2017 to 2024, almost entirely because workers will choose to supply less labor — given the new taxes and other incentives they will face and the financial benefits some will receive,” CBO analysts wrote in their new economic outlook.

The scorekeepers also said the rollout problems with the Affordable Care Act last year will mean only 6 million people sign up through the state-based exchanges, rather than the 7 million the CBO had originally projected.

But over the long run, Obamacare will eventually catch up and by 2020 only about 30 million people will be without insurance coverage — down from 45 million this year. That will mean about 92 percent of legal U.S. residents without guaranteed access to Medicare will have insurance coverage.
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:45 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
For people with incomes near the cut off line for Obamacare subsidies, working full time means no subsidies (and the person has to pay full price for coverage either directly or as part of his employment compensation). Not working or working part time means you get exchange provided healthcare subsidized plus extra leisure time. Forbes describes this as an implicit tax for those who choose full time work of ~15%.

It's similar to other aspects of our welfare system where a person who ends up in the system essentially has to take an hourly paycut to go back to work. It's a social safety web rather than a social safety net (or better yet a social safety trampoline).
There is zero evidence that people choose to live in poverty instead of working.

Zero.

Besides you know, that one quote you never disproved that showed that 92 percent of entitlement dollars goes to working, retired, or elderly persons, not people who choose not to work.
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:57 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
There is zero evidence that people choose to live in poverty instead of working.

Zero.

Besides you know, that one quote you never disproved that showed that 92 percent of entitlement dollars goes to working, retired, or elderly persons, not people who choose not to work.
You've got something seriously wrong with your brain. You keep bringing this 92 percent thing into conversations that have nothing to do with it.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:07 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
There is zero evidence that people choose to live in poverty instead of working.

Zero.
And the village idiot marches on.

That is NOT what the CBO is saying, nor is it what anyone here is claiming. The claim is that the 15% tax on middle class workers lower than 400% over the poverty line will disincentivize a certain AMOUNT of work and seriously harm the concept of upward mobility. It's typical of a socialist like yourself to completely disregard the concept that people may WANT to work more to actually EARN more. Obamacare makes damn sure that can't happen for at least one segment of the population.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:17 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You've got something seriously wrong with your brain. You keep bringing this 92 percent thing into conversations that have nothing to do with it.
You claim that social safety net makes people not work.

But 92 percent of social safety net dollars goes to working, retired, or disabled Americans, not able bodied Americans choosing not to work.

That fact has a lot do with your assertion being completely false.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:21 PM   #35
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And the village idiot marches on.

That is NOT what the CBO is saying, nor is it what anyone here is claiming. The claim is that the 15% tax on middle class workers lower than 400% over the poverty line will disincentivize a certain AMOUNT of work and seriously harm the concept of upward mobility. It's typical of a socialist like yourself to completely disregard the concept that people may WANT to work more to actually EARN more. Obamacare makes damn sure that can't happen for at least one segment of the population.
Your claiming people who want to work more and earn more to move up the ladder won't because they want a tax break on health insurance, and that is worth more to them than a 10 or 20 thousand dollar pay raise?



That people won't want to earn over 400 percent (60,000 for a family of like 4) above poverty line because of a couple thousand, if that, for help paying for health coverage?

Yes, I'm sure people will choose not to work more or move up the social ladder just because of a tax benefit for health insurance.

You got any evidence for this, or just going to continue to make stuff up?
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:24 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Your claiming people who want to work more and earn more to move up the ladder won't because they want a tax break on health insurance, and that is worth more to them than a 10 or 20 thousand dollar pay raise?



That people won't want to earn over 400 percent (60,000 for a family of like 4) above poverty line because of a couple thousand, if that, for help paying for health coverage?

Yes, I'm sure people will choose not to work more or move up the social ladder just because of a tax benefit for health insurance.

You got any evidence for this, or just going to continue to make stuff up?
You've never talked to someone who needed to be paid in cash or turned down an offer because it would cause them to lose benefits?
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:29 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
There is zero evidence that people choose to live in poverty instead of working.

Zero.

Besides you know, that one quote you never disproved that showed that 92 percent of entitlement dollars goes to working, retired, or elderly persons, not people who choose not to work.
Its not poverty if you have free housing, free health care, free education for your little ones, free food, and more free food if you are a prolific breeder.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:37 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
For people with incomes near the cut off line for Obamacare subsidies, working full time means no subsidies (and the person has to pay full price for coverage either directly or as part of his employment compensation). Not working or working part time means you get exchange provided healthcare subsidized plus extra leisure time. Forbes describes this as an implicit tax for those who choose full time work of ~15%.
So people who work because they need the income will give up their full time job and the income it provides in order to receive the subsidy for health insurance? And where will they now get the money for their mortgage, rent, car payment, etc? Sounds like a great plan...
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:43 PM   #39
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I thought Republicans believed the CBO was biased and or idiots?
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:46 PM   #40
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I thought Republicans believed the CBO was biased and or idiots?
I have never heard that opinion... but the CBO is susceptible to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out for the non-techies). That is a very legitimate concern.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:53 PM   #41
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I have never heard that opinion... but the CBO is susceptible to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out for the non-techies). That is a very legitimate concern.
It's been said numerous times by numerious posters when the CBO was saying something positive about an Obama proposal. But anyhow...............

Should have went with a single payer system, a medicare for all health care system. I blame the Republicans for wanting the status quo.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:40 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
You claim that social safety net makes people not work.

But 92 percent of social safety net dollars goes to working, retired, or disabled Americans, not able bodied Americans choosing not to work.

That fact has a lot do with your assertion being completely false.
No it doesn't. Even if it only effects 8% or 1% of the welfare receiving population, the effect is real. But the truth is that it effects people within that 92% too, because some of the people impacted are working but not working at full capacity due to disincentives in the various programs. But again, the number of people impacted is not the issue.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:43 PM   #43
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So people who work because they need the income will give up their full time job and the income it provides in order to receive the subsidy for health insurance? And where will they now get the money for their mortgage, rent, car payment, etc? Sounds like a great plan...
If you could work 30 hours per week and get the same after tax, after health insurance, after subsidy take home pay as you'd get working a full time job, wouldn't you? What if your take home pay was 99% of your full time pay? How about 95%? Anything greater than 75% means there's a disincentive to work that extra 10 hours per week. Where is your personal tipping point?
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:45 PM   #44
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You've never talked to someone who needed to be paid in cash or turned down an offer because it would cause them to lose benefits?
I doubt that he knows anyone who's ever been offered a job.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:46 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I thought Republicans believed the CBO was biased and or idiots?
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I have never heard that opinion... but the CBO is susceptible to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out for the non-techies). That is a very legitimate concern.
This.
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