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Old 02-09-2014, 08:53 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Trader Joes attracts White People.

So much for urban renewal. I guess a crack house and a busload of whores would be a way better deal.




Black residents reject Trader Joe’s because it would attract too many white people

February 8, 2014
Trader Joes opposition
Photo credit: Andrew Theen/The Oregonian
The Trader Joe’s grocery chain has withdrawn plans to build a store in the heart of a predominantly black neighborhood after a black leadership group fought the move.

The Portland Development Commission was set to give the grocer a large discount on property that had been vacant for years, pricing it at just over $500,000, down from an appraised value of $2.9 million, according to The Oregonian.http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...ican_lead.html

The Portland African American Leadership Forum sent a scathing letter in December to city leaders, saying the plan would price residents out of the area and the group“remains opposed to any development in North/Northeast Portland that does not primarily benefit the black community.”

Trader Joe’s would increase displacement of low-income residents and “increase the desirability of the neighborhood,” for “non-oppressed populations,” PAALF wrote.

“[This decision] reflects the city’s overall track record of implementing policies that serve to uproot, displace and disempower our most vulnerable community members,” the letter said.

Trader Joe’s bowed out amid the controversy.

“We run neighborhood stores, and our approach is simple: If a neighborhood does not want a Trader Joe’s, we understand, and we won’t open the store in question,” a company spokesperson said in a statement to The Oregonian.

But not everyone is happy about the outcome.

“There are no winners today,” Adam Milne, owner of Old Town Brewing Co., told The Oregonian. “Only missed tax revenue, lost jobs, less foot traffic, an empty lot and a boulevard still struggling to support its local small businesses.”

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/02/...e-people-99333
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:32 PM   #136
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I know it is. If this was a private developer, that would be a different story. Regardless of their reason. Once public money comes into play, I don't blame them for wanting to be vocal. Even if I disagree with their reasons.
Except your idea of the collective "them" here is inaccurate if you read the link I put up showing that's not what happened.

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Again, for the record, I'd want them to build there anyway. But I'm also not a vocal opponent of using public funds for development.
My point to you originally, was your thinking those who support "private property rights" were the same as those who just support any type of "property rights." So whoosh again!
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:40 PM   #137
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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Again, WHOOSH! Point went over your head.

The market value is what the market will bear. That monitors demand. If it were vacant for 20 years it doesn't seem to have met any demand. That relates to value too.
It is not market value when government is subsidizing a loss.

Buyers are always going to be okay with buying lower than market value. Sellers are always going to be okay with selling above market value. When a seller has the backing of government to sell below market value, OF COURSE buyer and seller are both going to be okay with it.

You are basing your entire argument on the idea that selling that property at 17% of appraised value had nothing to do with a government run entity selling below market value because they know taxpayers could foot the bill on the loss.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:52 PM   #138
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Except your idea of the collective "them" here is inaccurate if you read the link I put up showing that's not what happened.


My point to you originally, was your thinking those who support "private property rights" were the same as those who just support any type of "property rights." So whoosh again!
I'm trying to understand how a tax-paying business or homeowner in that neighborhood isn't considered a private property owner with a certain set of rights. Biggest of which being a voice in how their tax dollars are spent.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:39 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Are you serious? Market value is the value when supply meets demand. It's the price set by both the seller and the buyer.

I would love to buy a new Toyota for $1,000. OF COURSE my motivation as a buyer will be to buy property at below market value.

But what if the seller has the backing of government to sell that Toyota at $1,000 instead of standard retail price? Then that isn't market price. That is the price where the seller sold at a discounted price because he/she was subsidized by government.

Even when the car has been sitting on the lot for 20 years, huh?....
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:55 AM   #140
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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Even when the car has been sitting on the lot for 20 years, huh?....
Is the government selling you that car? Is the dealer selling that car to you with government funding any losses for selling below market value?

Then that's not market value.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:00 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by mikey23545 View Post
Even when the car has been sitting on the lot for 20 years, huh?....
WILL SOMEONE ****ING ANSWER???

If the government sells a councilman's BROTHER $2.9M in inventory, however long it's been sitting, for $500K, are you equally chill?


Fer****sakes!!!
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:04 AM   #142
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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WILL SOMEONE ****ING ANSWER???

If the government sells a councilman's BROTHER $2.9M in inventory, however long it's been sitting, for $500K, are you equally chill?


Fer****sakes!!!
You won't get an answer, because I think everybody knows the answer, even if they don't like it. They basically sold that property for free. We keep hearing the same argument over and over that this lot's been sitting there for 20 years, as if that wasn't already factored into the appraisal.
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:45 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
By the way, I'm sure there aren't examples of traditionally white neighborhoods zoning out businesses (e.g. nightclubs) that traditionally have black clientele. I'm super confident that has never happened.
Right, and people often call that institutional racism.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:54 AM   #144
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Is the government selling you that car? Is the dealer selling that car to you with government funding any losses for selling below market value?

Then that's not market value.
Market value is what someone is willing to pay and that's especially true if something has been sitting around for 20 years. It's irrelevant who the seller is in a case like this. I think you're the one having trouble understanding the proper meaning of "market value." Sometimes owners take losses--both private and govt.

In this case, we have a local govt trying to improve the economics of their area whereby they may be able to to collect revenue later to make up their losses--maybe make even more. Anyone can do that too. Doesn't mean it will succeed either. But they can take a calculated risk.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:58 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Key words...property "had been vacant for years."

If it were so frickin valuable, it would have been scooped up by someone before at that price.
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If they couldn't build and were paying property taxes and that was the only offer? Possibly, at some point you cut your losses and stop throwing good money after bad.

Again the appraiser can say whatever they want, something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:04 AM   #146
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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I'm trying to understand how a tax-paying business or homeowner in that neighborhood isn't considered a private property owner with a certain set of rights. Biggest of which being a voice in how their tax dollars are spent.
They're not "private property" owners in this scenario. This is what I was trying to tell you earlier.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:11 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
WILL SOMEONE ****ING ANSWER???

If the government sells a councilman's BROTHER $2.9M in inventory, however long it's been sitting, for $500K, are you equally chill?


Fer****sakes!!!
However long is not sufficient data. Let's not go Common Core math now.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:16 AM   #148
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Cheifzilla, collectively owned property does not provide the same amount of rights and privileges privately owned property does. If there is much at all. It leaves decisions in the hands of bureaucrats or officials. That's why people complain. It's typical politics. They can elect someone else, if they don't like it.

Private property ownership provides a person more freedom unlike collectively owned property. It's another good reason for less government.
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Old 02-12-2014, 08:01 AM   #149
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Also, chiefzilla, per the report in the other link, most in that neighborhood wanted the deal with a Trader Joe's.
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Old 02-12-2014, 08:03 AM   #150
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You won't get an answer, because I think everybody knows the answer, even if they don't like it. They basically sold that property for free. We keep hearing the same argument over and over that this lot's been sitting there for 20 years, as if that wasn't already factored into the appraisal.
You act as if the appraiser was faultless. You don't know that. Regardless, if no one else sought to buy it for that amount it is all we need to know. So this post is just your personal opinion.
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