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Old 02-09-2014, 09:53 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is online now
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Trader Joes attracts White People.

So much for urban renewal. I guess a crack house and a busload of whores would be a way better deal.




Black residents reject Trader Joe’s because it would attract too many white people

February 8, 2014
Trader Joes opposition
Photo credit: Andrew Theen/The Oregonian
The Trader Joe’s grocery chain has withdrawn plans to build a store in the heart of a predominantly black neighborhood after a black leadership group fought the move.

The Portland Development Commission was set to give the grocer a large discount on property that had been vacant for years, pricing it at just over $500,000, down from an appraised value of $2.9 million, according to The Oregonian.http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...ican_lead.html

The Portland African American Leadership Forum sent a scathing letter in December to city leaders, saying the plan would price residents out of the area and the group“remains opposed to any development in North/Northeast Portland that does not primarily benefit the black community.”

Trader Joe’s would increase displacement of low-income residents and “increase the desirability of the neighborhood,” for “non-oppressed populations,” PAALF wrote.

“[This decision] reflects the city’s overall track record of implementing policies that serve to uproot, displace and disempower our most vulnerable community members,” the letter said.

Trader Joe’s bowed out amid the controversy.

“We run neighborhood stores, and our approach is simple: If a neighborhood does not want a Trader Joe’s, we understand, and we won’t open the store in question,” a company spokesperson said in a statement to The Oregonian.

But not everyone is happy about the outcome.

“There are no winners today,” Adam Milne, owner of Old Town Brewing Co., told The Oregonian. “Only missed tax revenue, lost jobs, less foot traffic, an empty lot and a boulevard still struggling to support its local small businesses.”

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/02/...e-people-99333
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:33 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
How is this a derail?

Your whole argument is based on this ridiculous idea that the government sold $3M property for $500K because it was market value. And now you're hanging this flimsy rationale that appraisers were comically off on their assessment. If the government sold this below market value, then public taxpayers absorb the loss. Period.

And those public taxpayers include the neighborhood private property owners, business owners, and even renters who actually invest in that neighborhood. If these taxpayers are paying taxes to have stake in that neighborhood, then why are we vilifying for protesting against public money being used to subsidize a loss on a business they don't want there in the first place?
It's a derail in the sense that they don't want it there, not because the city is taking a loss on an asset [that is the gripe for other parts of the city] but because;

It will bring in non-oppressed resident customers
They demand more subsidized housing and local area giveaways in return.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:35 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
If they couldn't build and were paying property taxes and that was the only offer? Possibly, at some point you cut your losses and stop throwing good money after bad.

Again the appraiser can say whatever they want, something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.
Again, would you be so sanguine if the brother of a Commissioner getting this deal?
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:38 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
It's a derail in the sense that they don't want it there, not because the city is taking a loss on an asset, that is the gripe of other parts of the city, but because;

It will bring in non-oppressed resident customers
They demand more subsidized housing and local area giveaways in return.
Like I said, when the city takes a loss on an asset, it becomes taxpayer funded. Once it is taxpayer funded, those taxpayers should have the right to turn down anything they disagree with.

In this case... race card aside, they aren't wrong. This development will lead to a string of events that will likely displace them from their property. So yeah... again, if we're talking private money or development that was very clearly sold at market value, that's one thing. It's a really big stretch when people here are trying to claim that selling that property at $500K was the same market value a private developer would have demanded.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:43 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Like I said, when the city takes a loss on an asset, it becomes taxpayer funded. Once it is taxpayer funded, those taxpayers should have the right to turn down anything they disagree with.

In this case... race card aside, they aren't wrong. This development will lead to a string of events that will likely displace them from their property. So yeah... again, if we're talking private money or development that was very clearly sold at market value, that's one thing. It's a really big stretch when people here are trying to claim that selling that property at $500K was the same market value a private developer would have demanded.
Click on the hyperlinks in the original Oregonian or whatever it's called article in the thread header. Development is already going on in the area. New storefronts and a new apartment complex I believe were mentioned.

This is a shakedown, race card aside.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:54 PM   #125
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Holy Crap--this lot was empty for 20 years!!!!! There must have been some risk for a developer to buy it at full price. It wasn't a deal for TJ's but for a developer. TJ's was just going to be the anchor tenant.


There's more to this story....there were neighborhood people there who wanted the Trader Joe's. Three quarters of the black community already moved out years earlier. ( what some blacks claim was forcible removal.) The PAALF were just the biggest mouths over the deal.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...to_pull_o.html
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:57 PM   #126
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:59 PM   #127
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:00 AM   #128
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Hmmm...from my link above:

Quote:
...the corridor suffered from rising crime, dropping property values and the highest storefront vacancy rates in town.
Sounds like a deal Chiefzilla would have paid the full appraisal price for, especially when some of the other newer developments to the area remained empty.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:03 AM   #129
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:09 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Hmmm...from my link above:



Sounds like a deal Chiefzilla would have paid the full appraisal price for, especially when some of the other newer developments to the area remained empty.
I never said I would pay full appraised price. I know I sure as shit wouldn't sell a piece of property for 17% of the appraised value. If you're willing to do that, let me know how I can get into contract.

You can dance around this all you want. This is a public developer, not a private developer. If they sold this AT ALL below market value, it is a cost to the taxpayer. Period.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:13 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Click on the hyperlinks in the original Oregonian or whatever it's called article in the thread header. Development is already going on in the area. New storefronts and a new apartment complex I believe were mentioned.

This is a shakedown, race card aside.
I know it is. If this was a private developer, that would be a different story. Regardless of their reason. Once public money comes into play, I don't blame them for wanting to be vocal. Even if I disagree with their reasons.

Again, for the record, I'd want them to build there anyway. But I'm also not a vocal opponent of using public funds for development.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:14 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I never said I would pay full appraised price. I know I sure as shit wouldn't sell a piece of property for 17% of the appraised value. If you're willing to do that, let me know how I can get into contract.

You can dance around this all you want. This is a public developer, not a private developer. If they sold this AT ALL below market value, it is a cost to the taxpayer. Period.
How do you even know what they paid for it originally? Or if they did?

BTW market value is exactly what GC said ...what someone is willing to pay for it. Not what's on paper by an appraiser. Twenty years empty...nuff said!
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:18 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
How do you even know what they paid for it originally? Or if they did?

BTW market value is exactly what GC said ...what someone is willing to pay for it. Not what's on paper by an appraiser. Twenty years empty...nuff said!
Are you serious? Market value is the value when supply meets demand. It's the price set by both the seller and the buyer.

I would love to buy a new Toyota for $1,000. OF COURSE my motivation as a buyer will be to buy property at below market value.

But what if the seller has the backing of government to sell that Toyota at $1,000 instead of standard retail price? Then that isn't market price. That is the price where the seller sold at a discounted price because he/she was subsidized by government.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:22 AM   #134
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By the way, I'm sure there aren't examples of traditionally white neighborhoods zoning out businesses (e.g. nightclubs) that traditionally have black clientele. I'm super confident that has never happened.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:25 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Are you serious? Market value is the value when supply meets demand. It's the price set by both the seller and the buyer.

I would love to buy a new Toyota for $1,000. OF COURSE my motivation as a buyer will be to buy property at below market value.

But what if the seller has the backing of government to sell that Toyota at $1,000 instead of standard retail price? Then that isn't market price. That is the price where the seller sold at a discounted price because he/she was subsidized by government.
Again, WHOOSH! Point went over your head.

The market value is what the market will bear. That monitors demand. If it were vacant for 20 years it doesn't seem to have met any demand. That relates to value too.
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