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Old 02-19-2014, 07:09 PM  
Cochise Cochise is offline
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Bobby Jindal speech on religious liberty

I heard the full audio of this, and I thought it was great.



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By JAMES HOHMANN | 2/13/14 3:48 PM EST Updated: 2/13/14 5:00 PM EST

In a Thursday night speech at Ronald Reagan’s presidential library, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal will warn of a “silent war” on religious liberty in America and urge states to pass laws designed to block overreach by the Obama administration.

The 4,500-word address, shared first with POLITICO, touches on several hot-button issues, including same-sex marriage and contraception. Jindal, a potential 2016 GOP presidential candidate trying to woo social conservatives, argues that liberals will use the mantra of anti-discrimination to force people to violate their religious beliefs.

“The American people, whether they know it or not, are mired in a silent war,” Jindal will say at the Simi Valley, Calif., event. “It threatens the fabric of our communities, the health of our public square and the endurance of our constitutional governance.”

“This war is waged in our courts and in the halls of political power,” he adds, according to the prepared remarks. “It is pursued with grim and relentless determination by a group of like-minded elites, determined to transform the country from a land sustained by faith into a land where faith is silenced, privatized and circumscribed.”

The 42-year-old governor calls the upcoming Supreme Court decision on whether government can force Hobby Lobby craft stores to cover contraception through their health insurance plans just one of the battles being fought over religious liberty.

Citing a piece of failed legislation in Illinois, Jindal suggests that liberals will eventually try to pass laws designed to pressure churches to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies against their will. He also will blast the New Mexico Supreme Court for ruling last August that a wedding photography business violated the state’s Human Rights Act by refusing to photograph a same-sex commitment ceremony.

“This is the next stage of the assault, and it is only beginning,” Jindal plans to say.

“Today, an overwhelming majority of those who belong to a religious denomination in America — that’s more than half the country — are members of organizations that affirm the traditional definition of marriage. All of those denominations will be targeted in large and small degrees in the coming years.”

Jindal, a son of Indian immigrants and a convert to Catholicism, notes that religious persecution led the first pilgrims to cross the Atlantic Ocean. He speaks poignantly about the role religious groups have played in the push to abolish slavery and promote civil rights.

“America does not sustain and create faith. Faith created and sustains America,” he is expected to say.

Jindal, whose second term as governor ends in January 2016, is positioning himself to carry the mantle for social conservatives if he goes forward with a run for the White House. He was the first prominent politician to decry A&E for suspending “Duck Dynasty” star Phil Robertson over comments he made about homosexuality. The network backtracked under pressure from viewers.

“I defended them because they have every right to speak their minds, however indelicately they may choose to do so,” Jindal says of the Robertson family in his Thursday speech. “The modern left in America is completely intolerant of the views of people of faith. They want a completely secular society where people of faith keep their views to themselves.”

On March 25, the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in the Hobby Lobby case.

The religious family that owns the crafts store chain was told it would be fined $1.3 million a day if it did not cover morning-after pills for its employees under the Affordable Care Act. The federal government argues that Hobby Lobby is a for-profit business and thus not protected under the First Amendment’s “free exercise” of religion clause. But the family considers birth control objectionable on religious grounds.

“The Obama administration’s argument ignores these beliefs and treats them as little more than an inconvenience to its ever-expanding regulatory state,” he will say.

Jindal accuses the Obama administration of misinterpreting the First Amendment and believing that religious freedom means only the freedom to worship.

“Under the Obama regime, the president and his allies are intentional in pursuing these conflicts from the perspective that you must sacrifice your most sacred beliefs to government the instant you start a business,” he will say.

He notes that all nine Supreme Court justices agreed in the 2012 Hosanna-Tabor decision that federal employment laws do not apply to how religious organizations select their leaders. But he worries about a flood of anti-discrimination lawsuits at the state level, like the one in New Mexico.

“Will churches in America even be able to remain part of the public square in a time when their views on sin are in direct conflict with the culture and when expressing those views will be seen as hiding hateful speech behind religious protections?” Jindal will ask.

Jindal is the latest potential presidential candidate to make the pilgrimage to Simi Valley, Calif., following Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie. Each has offered a vision for where he aspires to lead the party of Reagan.

Former Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels famously called for a “truce” on social issues when he was considering a 2012 run, and some Washington Republicans think Jindal’s talk will only embolden Democrats to run their “war on women” playbook.

Jindal, however, argues that now’s the time for social conservatives to take a stand.

“In practical terms, a truce would only amount to those who value religious liberty laying down their arms,” Jindal says in the speech. “Our religious freedom was won over the course of centuries of persecution and blood, and we should not surrender them without a fight.”

Jindal notes that pharmacists are already protected from needing to fill prescriptions for birth control if they object on religious grounds. He wants to extend this principle to other professions.

He praises states such as Kansas and Kentucky for enacting religious liberty protections, which adopt strict standards in the state constitutions, either by amendment or judicial decision. The Kentucky law, which passed over the Democratic governor’s veto, requires proof of a compelling government interest before any state or local law can force citizens to act in opposition to their religious beliefs.

“These laws are a good start, but we need more of them,” Jindal will say. “We must enshrine in our state laws strong legal protections for churches, religious organizations and individual believers. No church or church affiliated organization or individuals whose business is run in a manner consistent with their faith practices should be required by the state to take steps in conflict with their religion. Nor should they be legally punished for how they treat marital arrangements outside the teachings of their faith.”

A key theme of the speech is that religious pluralism must be protected on principle, regardless of someone’s view on abortion or gay marriage.

“It is unmistakable that most of the Obama administration’s attacks on religious liberty are aimed at conservative Christians,” Jindal is to say, “but the fact is that our religious liberties are designed to protect people of all faiths.”
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:19 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I have no interest in policing religious beliefs. My interest is in one thing: the protection of life, liberty, and property. These boundaries should never be crossed for any reason - and if they are, justice should be swift and rigorous.

You fail to distinguish between beliefs and expression of beliefs.
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:32 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
Actually, you've gone a bit overboard here. The word used is "prohibt" not "abridged". For example, if I have a religion that condones human sacrifice, I cannot claim freedom of prosecution for murder because my religious rights were prohibited. The law takes precedence.

Religion is matter of "opinion" not "action" in the eyes of the law. Therefore you have the right to your opinion regarding religion but not necessarily any action you desire that stems from those opinions. I can believe, as a matter of religious opinion, I am entitled to multiple wives. But, I cannot engage in the action because it is contrary to U.S. Law (this was actually the SCOTUS case where the distinction was made).
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

Source: The United States Bill of Rights - First Amendment
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:51 AM   #63
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I echo HolyHandgernade's understanding of the establishment clause. That is sort of what I was angling for earlier starting with biblical sources for a religious belief that is line with my thoughts.

However you mention life, liberty and property. And this is the other half of the book in my argument. For a women, the single most likely thing to adversely effect her health to the point of death, in the first half of a women's average life span, in which she has some control, is pregnancy. With modern medicine it has greatly been reduced but it is still the largest predictor for adverse outcome to a women's health. So your religious belief is an imposition on the life of others who do not hold that belief and wish to control that risk under modern science in the form of birth control. (In which no diploid life is destroyed. Only haploid life is allowed to wither.)
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:58 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
I find it interesting that he assumes the government is going to attack churches doctrines. That really isn't likely at all. Churches can control membership and the rules of membership in their church just like any other club with the added help of Constitutional protection. However when a a religious man enters an enterprise of making money, Hobby Lobby, than they cannot enforce their religious beliefs on their employees because the Constitution protects the employee as well. The minimal standards for Health Care are established legislatively over commercial operations.
The constitution was never intended to protect people from their employers. To the extent that it now does, it's a perversion created by political pressure. That same type of political pressure is the source of the looming threat to religious liberty.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:07 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The constitution was never intended to protect people from their employers. To the extent that it now does, it's a perversion created by political pressure. That same type of political pressure is the source of the looming threat to religious liberty.
Sure it does:

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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:09 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
I echo HolyHandgernade's understanding of the establishment clause. That is sort of what I was angling for earlier starting with biblical sources for a religious belief that is line with my thoughts.

However you mention life, liberty and property. And this is the other half of the book in my argument. For a women, the single most likely thing to adversely effect her health to the point of death, in the first half of a women's average life span, in which she has some control, is pregnancy. With modern medicine it has greatly been reduced but it is still the largest predictor for adverse outcome to a women's health. So your religious belief is an imposition on the life of others who do not hold that belief and wish to control that risk under modern science in the form of birth control. (In which no diploid life is destroyed. Only haploid life is allowed to wither.)
Employers don't impose anything on people who are voluntary employees.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:10 AM   #67
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Sure it does:
Dumb
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:20 AM   #68
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Dumb
Yea, I know, you think it's dumb for the government to promote the general welfare, but its right there in the constitution. Sorry, buddy.
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:35 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

Source: The United States Bill of Rights - First Amendment
And?
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:47 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Jindal, a son of Indian immigrants and a convert to Catholicism, notes that religious persecution led the first pilgrims to cross the Atlantic Ocean. He speaks poignantly about the role religious groups have played in the push to abolish slavery and promote civil rights.

“America does not sustain and create faith. Faith created and sustains America,” he is expected to say.



Oh yay, yet another talking head that likes to pretend that the Pilgrims founded our country one hundred and fifty years before the Founding Fathers actually did.
You cannot deny that such things are part of our historical time line leading to the idea of having a First Amendment in the last official document. It wasn't until after the Constitution, that states disestablished their churches on their own volition. They didn't have to under the Constitution per state's rights.

If one wants to be a stickler for official legal documents as the only valid founding documents, excluding ideas that led to our founding, then one can only see the Constitution has a massive breach of contract from the original Articles of Confederation. That is if one wants to be technical about it.
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:39 PM   #71
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You cannot deny that such things are part of our historical time line leading to the idea of having a First Amendment in the last official document. It wasn't until after the Constitution, that states disestablished their churches on their own volition. They didn't have to under the Constitution per state's rights.

If one wants to be a stickler for official legal documents as the only valid founding documents, excluding ideas that led to our founding, then one can only see the Constitution has a massive breach of contract from the original Articles of Confederation. That is if one wants to be technical about it.
The original Articles of Federation failed. Not that they did because they were flawed, but they did fail. What we have now is a country based upon the USCON. It's the foundation of our legal system, and our nation is built upon her law.
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Old 02-25-2014, 02:24 PM   #72
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Sure it does:
That's a mission statement, not a directive you dumb ****.
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:43 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
I echo HolyHandgernade's understanding of the establishment clause. That is sort of what I was angling for earlier starting with biblical sources for a religious belief that is line with my thoughts.

However you mention life, liberty and property. And this is the other half of the book in my argument. For a women, the single most likely thing to adversely effect her health to the point of death, in the first half of a women's average life span, in which she has some control, is pregnancy. With modern medicine it has greatly been reduced but it is still the largest predictor for adverse outcome to a women's health. So your religious belief is an imposition on the life of others who do not hold that belief and wish to control that risk under modern science in the form of birth control. (In which no diploid life is destroyed. Only haploid life is allowed to wither.)
No it's not. You're starting from the point that people are inherently owed birth control. They're not.
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:47 PM   #74
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And?
What do you mean and? You were proven wrong. You are arguing from a false platform. I corrected what you said and put things in proper context. The constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

...and... you're going to need to join the discussion using the proper context, and not one that you imagined. We can't have a discussion if you're jumbling the words and meanings of the constitution to make it say what you want it to say.
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:47 PM   #75
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No it's not. You're starting from the point that people are inherently owed birth control. They're not.
I think he is comparing the liberty of a female citizen to the life of an unfertilized egg.
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