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Old 02-19-2014, 08:09 PM  
Cochise Cochise is offline
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Bobby Jindal speech on religious liberty

I heard the full audio of this, and I thought it was great.



Quote:
By JAMES HOHMANN | 2/13/14 3:48 PM EST Updated: 2/13/14 5:00 PM EST

In a Thursday night speech at Ronald Reagan’s presidential library, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal will warn of a “silent war” on religious liberty in America and urge states to pass laws designed to block overreach by the Obama administration.

The 4,500-word address, shared first with POLITICO, touches on several hot-button issues, including same-sex marriage and contraception. Jindal, a potential 2016 GOP presidential candidate trying to woo social conservatives, argues that liberals will use the mantra of anti-discrimination to force people to violate their religious beliefs.

“The American people, whether they know it or not, are mired in a silent war,” Jindal will say at the Simi Valley, Calif., event. “It threatens the fabric of our communities, the health of our public square and the endurance of our constitutional governance.”

“This war is waged in our courts and in the halls of political power,” he adds, according to the prepared remarks. “It is pursued with grim and relentless determination by a group of like-minded elites, determined to transform the country from a land sustained by faith into a land where faith is silenced, privatized and circumscribed.”

The 42-year-old governor calls the upcoming Supreme Court decision on whether government can force Hobby Lobby craft stores to cover contraception through their health insurance plans just one of the battles being fought over religious liberty.

Citing a piece of failed legislation in Illinois, Jindal suggests that liberals will eventually try to pass laws designed to pressure churches to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies against their will. He also will blast the New Mexico Supreme Court for ruling last August that a wedding photography business violated the state’s Human Rights Act by refusing to photograph a same-sex commitment ceremony.

“This is the next stage of the assault, and it is only beginning,” Jindal plans to say.

“Today, an overwhelming majority of those who belong to a religious denomination in America — that’s more than half the country — are members of organizations that affirm the traditional definition of marriage. All of those denominations will be targeted in large and small degrees in the coming years.”

Jindal, a son of Indian immigrants and a convert to Catholicism, notes that religious persecution led the first pilgrims to cross the Atlantic Ocean. He speaks poignantly about the role religious groups have played in the push to abolish slavery and promote civil rights.

“America does not sustain and create faith. Faith created and sustains America,” he is expected to say.

Jindal, whose second term as governor ends in January 2016, is positioning himself to carry the mantle for social conservatives if he goes forward with a run for the White House. He was the first prominent politician to decry A&E for suspending “Duck Dynasty” star Phil Robertson over comments he made about homosexuality. The network backtracked under pressure from viewers.

“I defended them because they have every right to speak their minds, however indelicately they may choose to do so,” Jindal says of the Robertson family in his Thursday speech. “The modern left in America is completely intolerant of the views of people of faith. They want a completely secular society where people of faith keep their views to themselves.”

On March 25, the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in the Hobby Lobby case.

The religious family that owns the crafts store chain was told it would be fined $1.3 million a day if it did not cover morning-after pills for its employees under the Affordable Care Act. The federal government argues that Hobby Lobby is a for-profit business and thus not protected under the First Amendment’s “free exercise” of religion clause. But the family considers birth control objectionable on religious grounds.

“The Obama administration’s argument ignores these beliefs and treats them as little more than an inconvenience to its ever-expanding regulatory state,” he will say.

Jindal accuses the Obama administration of misinterpreting the First Amendment and believing that religious freedom means only the freedom to worship.

“Under the Obama regime, the president and his allies are intentional in pursuing these conflicts from the perspective that you must sacrifice your most sacred beliefs to government the instant you start a business,” he will say.

He notes that all nine Supreme Court justices agreed in the 2012 Hosanna-Tabor decision that federal employment laws do not apply to how religious organizations select their leaders. But he worries about a flood of anti-discrimination lawsuits at the state level, like the one in New Mexico.

“Will churches in America even be able to remain part of the public square in a time when their views on sin are in direct conflict with the culture and when expressing those views will be seen as hiding hateful speech behind religious protections?” Jindal will ask.

Jindal is the latest potential presidential candidate to make the pilgrimage to Simi Valley, Calif., following Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie. Each has offered a vision for where he aspires to lead the party of Reagan.

Former Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels famously called for a “truce” on social issues when he was considering a 2012 run, and some Washington Republicans think Jindal’s talk will only embolden Democrats to run their “war on women” playbook.

Jindal, however, argues that now’s the time for social conservatives to take a stand.

“In practical terms, a truce would only amount to those who value religious liberty laying down their arms,” Jindal says in the speech. “Our religious freedom was won over the course of centuries of persecution and blood, and we should not surrender them without a fight.”

Jindal notes that pharmacists are already protected from needing to fill prescriptions for birth control if they object on religious grounds. He wants to extend this principle to other professions.

He praises states such as Kansas and Kentucky for enacting religious liberty protections, which adopt strict standards in the state constitutions, either by amendment or judicial decision. The Kentucky law, which passed over the Democratic governor’s veto, requires proof of a compelling government interest before any state or local law can force citizens to act in opposition to their religious beliefs.

“These laws are a good start, but we need more of them,” Jindal will say. “We must enshrine in our state laws strong legal protections for churches, religious organizations and individual believers. No church or church affiliated organization or individuals whose business is run in a manner consistent with their faith practices should be required by the state to take steps in conflict with their religion. Nor should they be legally punished for how they treat marital arrangements outside the teachings of their faith.”

A key theme of the speech is that religious pluralism must be protected on principle, regardless of someone’s view on abortion or gay marriage.

“It is unmistakable that most of the Obama administration’s attacks on religious liberty are aimed at conservative Christians,” Jindal is to say, “but the fact is that our religious liberties are designed to protect people of all faiths.”
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:58 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
Actually, you've gone a bit overboard here. The word used is "prohibt" not "abridged". For example, if I have a religion that condones human sacrifice, I cannot claim freedom of prosecution for murder because my religious rights were prohibited. The law takes precedence.

Religion is matter of "opinion" not "action" in the eyes of the law. Therefore you have the right to your opinion regarding religion but not necessarily any action you desire that stems from those opinions. I can believe, as a matter of religious opinion, I am entitled to multiple wives. But, I cannot engage in the action because it is contrary to U.S. Law (this was actually the SCOTUS case where the distinction was made).
In addition to being flat wrong on your first point (which I've already demonstrated) - I just want to make something absolutely clear: the above is a stupid argument to make, and it's being made for one reason: there is no other recourse but to obfuscate the issue.

There is no discussion in this country about allowing the legitimization of murder on religious grounds. This is a straw man that has no place in this discussion. The fact that anyone would go here is a demonstration of how little they have to offer in the actual discussion of government mandating people to provide other people with birth control.

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." -Thomas Jefferson

Let's please get the discussion away from this sophomoric thought eddy, and back on to the real issue.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:03 PM   #77
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
What do you mean and? You were proven wrong. You are arguing from a false platform. I corrected what you said and put things in proper context. The constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

...and... you're going to need to join the discussion using the proper context, and not one that you imagined. We can't have a discussion if you're jumbling the words and meanings of the constitution to make it say what you want it to say.
I don't understand what you think you proved? You added "ing" to the word I highlighted? WTF?
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:07 PM   #78
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
In addition to being flat wrong on your first point (which I've already demonstrated) - I just want to make something absolutely clear: the above is a stupid argument to make, and it's being made for one reason: there is no other recourse but to obfuscate the issue.
I don't think it has anywhere except for your obviously confused mind. I don't think you're comprehending my point and thus sound like a ranting lunatic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
There is no discussion in this country about allowing the legitimization of murder on religious grounds. This is a straw man that has no place in this discussion. The fact that anyone would go here is a demonstration of how little they have to offer in the actual discussion of government mandating people to provide other people with birth control.
I don't think you understand the term "straw man". I didn't make up an argument and pretend this was your point. I listed first an extreme example, which I'm quite sure everyone knows is not a real issue, but then followed it up with the actual Supreme Court case from which this interpretation derives. (Reynolds v. U.S., 98 U.S. at 164)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." -Thomas Jefferson

Let's please get the discussion away from this sophomoric thought eddy, and back on to the real issue.
Perhaps you need to take a breath. Your rantings are making you look rather unreasonable. I'll restate the point and perhaps it will be clearer to you.

The reason the religion clause uses prohibit instead of abridge is because "prohibit" implies a totality, whereas "abridge" implies a partiality. The free exercise of religion may not be prohibited, that is, totally done away with. But, it can be limited, especially where the law takes precedence. If it had said "abridging", then it would have meant one cannot infringe upon it at all.

Religion is opinion, not action. The government cannot prohibit your freedom of conscious, but it can limit your freedom of action. Since we're quoting Jefferson, let me continue his points:

Quote:
"The legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law ... prohibiting the free exercise thereof [of religion],' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. ... , convinced he [man] has no natural right in opposition to his social duties" (Library of Congress, LC 20593-20594; Writings, 16:281-282).
The very case I reference also harkens back to Jefferson and his stance:

Quote:
"Coming as this does from an acknowledged leader of the advocates of the measure, it may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the amendment thus secured. Congress was deprived of all legislative power over mere opinion, but was left free to reach actions which were in violation of social duties or subversive of good order" (Reynolds v. U.S., 98 U.S. at 164).
In 1890 the Court again unanimously defined the "free exercise" of religion and said:

Quote:
"The First Amendment to the Constitution ... was intended to allow everyone under the jurisdiction of the United States to entertain such notions respecting his relations to his Maker and the duties they impose as may be approved by his judgment and conscience ... It was never intended or supposed that the Amendment could be invoked as a protection against legislation for the punishment of acts inimical [hostile] to the peace, good order and morals of society. ... However free the exercise of religion may be, it must be subordinate to the criminal laws of the country" (Davis v. Beason, 133 U.S. at 342).
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:15 PM
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:21 PM   #79
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Christ, I have to hold your hand through this idiocy to?
No, no, please don't. I think I understand your view now.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:26 PM   #80
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Forget it... It's not worth it.

You guys want to force people to cross their religion. Fine. The Supreme Court will have the last word, and let's hope they have a better understanding of religious liberty than you guys do...
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:02 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Forget it... It's not worth it.

You guys want to force people to cross their religion. Fine. The Supreme Court will have the last word, and let's hope they have a better understanding of religious liberty than you guys do...
Supreme Court has already ruled that, as a consequence of drawing breath, you must give your money to a private corporation.

Holding that group of old codgers up to be bastions of logical thinking is a long shot.
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