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Old 02-19-2014, 08:14 PM  
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Anyone Following The Protests In The Ukraine?

I've been seeing some impressive pics of protests in Kiev.


Protests against new anti-democratic laws in Ukraine are increasing in intensity, with four citizens reported dead. As you can see in these extraordinary images by Ilya Varlamov, the demonstrators are using rockets made with fireworks. They look like scenes from some science-fiction movie about urban warfare.

The latest reports talk about at least four people killed and hundreds injured by the police. After the massive protests against the government's rejection against the European Union in favor of an alliance with the former Russian oppressors, Kiev officials announced new repressive laws limiting the people's right to protest. These urban battles are the people's reaction to those laws.

Ukraine was a former Soviet Republic, created after a civil war between pro-communist and the Ukrainian People's Republic armies at the beginning of the 20th century, right after the fall of the Russian Empire. The communists won, and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was established. In theory, it was an independent state, but in fact—like all republics in the USSR and satellite countries—it was under a tight control by the Kremlin.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/spectacula...rai-1507432049

Pics to follow...
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:54 PM   #1516
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Russia Will Sanction U.S. Senators
Putin is expected to release his retaliation list as early as Tuesday and while the final list is still being crafted, it will include top Obama administration officials and high profile U.S. senators, in an effort to roughly mirror the U.S. sanctions against Russian officials and lawmakers, according to diplomatic sources. At the top of the list in Congress is Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin, who recently co-authored a resolution criticizing Russia’s invasion of Crimea.
McCain says he'll be happy to be on the list. Perhaps, those Russians are happy to be on ours too. "McCain is advocating for a series of more serious steps, which include the immediate arming of the Ukrainian military..." ( What a stupid ass. Why isn't he in the donkey party?)

What a bunch of children!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...officials.html
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:59 PM   #1517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Russia Will Sanction U.S. Senators
Putin is expected to release his retaliation list as early as Tuesday and while the final list is still being crafted, it will include top Obama administration officials and high profile U.S. senators, in an effort to roughly mirror the U.S. sanctions against Russian officials and lawmakers, according to diplomatic sources. At the top of the list in Congress is Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin, who recently co-authored a resolution criticizing Russia’s invasion of Crimea.
McCain says he'll be happy to be on the list. Perhaps, those Russians are happy to be on ours too. "McCain is advocating for a series of more serious steps, which include the immediate arming of the Ukrainian military..." ( What a stupid ass. Why isn't he in the donkey party?)

What a bunch of children!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...officials.html

Are those sanctions doing anything other than barring people from the country? I mean, are there any assets to freeze?
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:03 PM   #1518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Your and idiot and clueless about Russia. A number of the oligarchs in question are "officials" and "aides" to Putin (or Chair of such and such committee). Yes I want it expanded and that is easily done. As a matter of fact...



This EO is worded such that any oligarch who supports Putin is fair game.

The original list btw had 120 names but these 21 were what could be agreed upon to start with. A strategy I agree with. You have to set an example before you threaten an expanded list.
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Keep digging that hole of ignorance deeper son.

This is very clearly a step towards what I proposed and the EO is worded such to include damn near anyone they want. So now we have a legal basis that you claimed was impossible and a first step toward the end result that I wanted. I never claimed it would actually get that far and I still have my doubts that the EU has the stomach to go further... and hell, it may get resolved before it gets to that point anyway.

BUT it's pretty damn clear that you were dead wrong. The legal basis is in place now it's just a question of will.
Again, in theory Texas could legalize gay marriage and marijuana next week too. That doesn't mean it will happen.

The wording of the EO has no impact on whether they will actually be able to seize/freeze the assets of the oligarchs. And considering that the UK has more or less indicated that they won't do anything to the oligarchs, good luck getting traction with authorities who have the ability to actually seize their assets.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:05 PM   #1519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Are those sanctions doing anything other than barring people from the country? I mean, are there any assets to freeze?
Well, it's almost equivalent to what we're doing considering a good portion of the assets that Austin thinks we can seize are beyond the reach of our legal systems.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:07 PM   #1520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Well, it's almost equivalent to what we're doing considering a good portion of the assets that Austin thinks we can seize are beyond the reach of our legal systems.
I was under the impression that there are relevant wealthy Russians with assets that falls within our jurisdiction.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:11 PM   #1521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
I was under the impression that there are relevant wealthy Russians with assets that falls within our jurisdiction.
There are a couple. If you think seizing their assets (which Putin enabled them to have), will affect Putin in any way, then I have a bridge I'd like to discuss with you.

Most of the oligarchs split time between the UK and Russia.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:13 PM   #1522
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As I stated earlier, the US just appropriated $1B to keep Ukraine running. But they just got the gas bill from Russia. The invoice? $1.8B, with late fees. Looks like we will all be paying for those folks' heating bills. Go USA!
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:13 PM   #1523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Are those sanctions doing anything other than barring people from the country? I mean, are there any assets to freeze?
You'll still be able to get a mail order bride don't worry.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:15 PM   #1524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Again, in theory Texas could legalize gay marriage and marijuana next week too. That doesn't mean it will happen.

The wording of the EO has no impact on whether they will actually be able to seize/freeze the assets of the oligarchs. And considering that the UK has more or less indicated that they won't do anything to the oligarchs, good luck getting traction with authorities who have the ability to actually seize their assets.
Nice try at changing the goalposts shithead. My initial statement was about what I WANTED to happen... I even stated that the UK wouldn't have the stomach for it. You argued that my idea was outlandish and infeasible based on legality... the EO proves that wrong. AND you are wrong about the oligarchs since I'd bet some(maybe 2 or 3) on the list of 21 are among the 80-100 people considered Putin's oligarch buddies. Just because they aren't celebrity oligarchs doesn't change the outcome.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:16 PM   #1525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
I was under the impression that there are relevant wealthy Russians with assets that falls within our jurisdiction.
There are some for sure, but the real bite comes from the EU... and this is a legit for step since these sanctions apply to both the US and EU.


Btw I wouldn't listen to KCNative he has been consistently wrong on this topic and is clueless. As him about Odessa.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:18 PM   #1526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
There are a couple. If you think seizing their assets (which Putin enabled them to have), will affect Putin in any way, then I have a bridge I'd like to discuss with you.

Most of the oligarchs split time between the UK and Russia.
The documents and articles I briefly skimmed in the last few weeks indicated to me that the majority of relevant assets would be in Europe. That the US would play a smaller role in any freeze than the EU. I don't know if anyone can really get a good idea of where those assets would be located but Russia does business with Europe. Not so much with us, as far as I know.

Along those lines I saw a link to the EU document regarding the sanctions. Here it is in pdf:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...06:0015:EN:PDF

I haven't seen anything that specifically mentions sanctions that the UK will be involved in, but the document seems to include the UK as the UK is a member state of the EU.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:24 PM   #1527
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Come on. The line was absurd then, and it's even more obviously absurd with our current hindsight.
You're acting like he said that Russia was irrelevant or something.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:26 PM   #1528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
There are some for sure, but the real bite comes from the EU... and this is a legit for step since these sanctions apply to both the US and EU.


Btw I wouldn't listen to KCNative he has been consistently wrong on this topic and is clueless. As him about Odessa.
Yeah. It occurred to me that our move is more political than economic. More of a show of solidarity with our allies.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:38 PM   #1529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
The documents and articles I briefly skimmed in the last few weeks indicated to me that the majority of relevant assets would be in Europe. That the US would play a smaller role in any freeze than the EU. I don't know if anyone can really get a good idea of where those assets would be located but Russia does business with Europe. Not so much with us, as far as I know.

Along those lines I saw a link to the EU document regarding the sanctions. Here it is in pdf:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...06:0015:EN:PDF

I haven't seen anything that specifically mentions sanctions that the UK will be involved in, but the document seems to include the UK as the UK is a member state of the EU.
Just skimming the list I think my 2 or 3 number is spot on. 2 Russian oligarchs(who also hold a political position which is not uncommon) and 1 Ukrainian.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:40 PM   #1530
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Yeah. It occurred to me that our move is more political than economic. More of a show of solidarity with our allies.
I think it is slightly more than that. I think Obama isn't just following the EU or right alongside but is actually pushing them on this. The question will be how hard he is willing to push next.
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