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Old 02-19-2014, 08:14 PM  
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Anyone Following The Protests In The Ukraine?

I've been seeing some impressive pics of protests in Kiev.


Protests against new anti-democratic laws in Ukraine are increasing in intensity, with four citizens reported dead. As you can see in these extraordinary images by Ilya Varlamov, the demonstrators are using rockets made with fireworks. They look like scenes from some science-fiction movie about urban warfare.

The latest reports talk about at least four people killed and hundreds injured by the police. After the massive protests against the government's rejection against the European Union in favor of an alliance with the former Russian oppressors, Kiev officials announced new repressive laws limiting the people's right to protest. These urban battles are the people's reaction to those laws.

Ukraine was a former Soviet Republic, created after a civil war between pro-communist and the Ukrainian People's Republic armies at the beginning of the 20th century, right after the fall of the Russian Empire. The communists won, and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was established. In theory, it was an independent state, but in fact—like all republics in the USSR and satellite countries—it was under a tight control by the Kremlin.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/spectacula...rai-1507432049

Pics to follow...
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:15 PM   #1546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
If they are Russian officials and they have assets here, then they are fair game. If they aren't Russian officials, then we won't be able to get the assets.
I don't think it matters whether they are Russian officials or not. Here's a link to the code referred to (1702) in the section I quoted:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1702
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:17 PM   #1547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
now you're trying to expand it to restricted travel.

We were discussing asset forfeiture and seizure (and originally whether it would have any impact on Putin but you've conveniently forgot that now).

I never said that we wouldn't start the process. I said that asset freezing/seizing wouldn't happen and pointed out the legal difficulties associated with it. It hasn't happened and it won't happen.

Also, I'm glad your bar debates have now made you an legal expert (the comment about failed legal challenges). It's nice to know that sleeping in holiday inn's and shouting down drunks in bars is all it takes to become an expert in that arena.
It has ALREADY happened dumbass. Yes it is limited to the first 21 but they have clearly laid out a path to do so for ANYONE they feel is supporting the current Russian regime (ie Putin). Read the EO and the EU document and they make it very obvious how they can escalate this in damn near any way they please.

And it's Holiday Inn Expresses, jagoff.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:17 PM   #1548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
I think we at least need to save this Ukrainian football team's supporters

I am going to quote you. Not because I have anything to add here. In fact, there is no point to my text at all.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:19 PM   #1549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
I don't think it matters whether they are Russian officials or not. Here's a link to the code referred to (1702) in the section I quoted:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1702
The problem is ultimately jurisdiction. Almost all of those assets are not within our jurisdiction.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:20 PM   #1550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
If they are Russian officials and they have assets here, then they are fair game. If they aren't Russian officials, then we won't be able to get the assets.
Based on what? YOUR vast legal knowledge? HAHAHAHA! Wrong yet again.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:21 PM   #1551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
It has ALREADY happened dumbass. Yes it is limited to the first 21 but they have clearly laid out a path to do so for ANYONE they feel is supporting the current Russian regime (ie Putin). Read the EO and the EU document and they make it very obvious how they can escalate this in damn near any way they please.

And it's Holiday Inn Expresses, jagoff.
Then it should be no problem to list the assets that have been seized or frozen. Go ahead and list them (I'll wait).
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:22 PM   #1552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
The problem is ultimately jurisdiction. Almost all of those assets are not within our jurisdiction.
That doesn't really matter within the context of a discussion regarding legality. We'll handle our end of it and expect all of the member states of the EU to handle their end. Any outliers will be pressured politically since they all agreed to it.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:23 PM   #1553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
The problem is ultimately jurisdiction. Almost all of those assets are not within our jurisdiction.
Yes, they vast majority(to be targeted) is in the EU. You now going to claim the EU has MORE stringent laws on this?

I'd love you to, just another example of you being wrong.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:26 PM   #1554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Then it should be no problem to list the assets that have been seized or frozen. Go ahead and list them (I'll wait).
Nice attempt to move the goalposts YET AGAIN.

Are you claiming now that the current EO and EU regulation will not freeze any assets? Even though the ENTIRE Western media claims otherwise. So, Obama/Kerry are lying and you know better! Damn we are blessed having you here to tell all of us what REALLY happens in the world!
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:28 PM   #1555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
That doesn't really matter within the context of a discussion regarding legality. We'll handle our end of it and expect all of the member states of the EU to handle their end. Any outliers will be pressured politically since they all agreed to it.
He's lost the legal debate so now he's trying to weasel his way into a new position.

It's sad because the more he opines on this the more ignorant he looks.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:31 PM   #1556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Yes, they vast majority(to be targeted) is in the EU. You now going to claim the EU has MORE stringent laws on this?

I'd love you to, just another example of you being wrong.
No, but the EU isn't going to do anything because they like the oligarchs' cash.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:32 PM   #1557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Nice attempt to move the goalposts YET AGAIN.

Are you claiming now that the current EO and EU regulation will not freeze any assets? Even though the ENTIRE Western media claims otherwise. So, Obama/Kerry are lying and you know better! Damn we are blessed having you here to tell all of us what REALLY happens in the world!
You claimed that we've already seized assets. I'm waiting for you to list them.

And the EU will not seize the oligarchs' assets.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:33 PM   #1558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
No, but the EU isn't going to do anything because they like the oligarchs' cash.
Um...

The European Union slapped travel bans and asset freezes Monday on 21 people from Russia and Crimea who they linked to the push for the secession of Ukraine's strategic Black Sea peninsula.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ussia-22936821
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:33 PM   #1559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
That doesn't really matter within the context of a discussion regarding legality. We'll handle our end of it and expect all of the member states of the EU to handle their end. Any outliers will be pressured politically since they all agreed to it.
EU won't seize the oligarchs' assets. They'll restrict travel but they aren't seizing assets.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:35 PM   #1560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Um...

The European Union slapped travel bans and asset freezes Monday on 21 people from Russia and Crimea who they linked to the push for the secession of Ukraine's strategic Black Sea peninsula.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ussia-22936821
Yes, on the Russian officials. We're discussing the really rich guys in London. The ones that Austin has claimed that we'll go after.
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Quote:
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