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Old 02-19-2014, 08:14 PM  
listopencil listopencil is offline
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Anyone Following The Protests In The Ukraine?

I've been seeing some impressive pics of protests in Kiev.


Protests against new anti-democratic laws in Ukraine are increasing in intensity, with four citizens reported dead. As you can see in these extraordinary images by Ilya Varlamov, the demonstrators are using rockets made with fireworks. They look like scenes from some science-fiction movie about urban warfare.

The latest reports talk about at least four people killed and hundreds injured by the police. After the massive protests against the government's rejection against the European Union in favor of an alliance with the former Russian oppressors, Kiev officials announced new repressive laws limiting the people's right to protest. These urban battles are the people's reaction to those laws.

Ukraine was a former Soviet Republic, created after a civil war between pro-communist and the Ukrainian People's Republic armies at the beginning of the 20th century, right after the fall of the Russian Empire. The communists won, and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was established. In theory, it was an independent state, but in fact—like all republics in the USSR and satellite countries—it was under a tight control by the Kremlin.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/spectacula...rai-1507432049

Pics to follow...
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:49 AM   #151
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Getting into bed with Putin probably means ceding control to him whenever he wishes to exert it. The economic aid would come with all those sorts of strings. He's in the empire business.
Like the current EU and some in our own govt. It's just empires clashing against other empires.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:13 AM   #152
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Her point seems to be that they aren't truly free people at the moment.
Her point was, in reality: "I'm unhappy my candidate lost the election. That's not fair."
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:17 AM   #153
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As far as the gas prices go, that massively discounted price you mentioned is pretty much the standard going rate for other European countries. So Russia told Ukraine: "Hey, we're brothers so we decided to stop raping you with our old prices, but, hey, can we please park our Southern Fleet in your waters in return? Also, can you please make sure and stick to our system of endemic corruption where everything is run by the mob and everyone answers to the Godfather, Putin? There really is no reason to look to the West when everything is so perfect right here. Thanks!" How dare Ukraine be such an ingrate.
From what I read the Southern area is heavily pro-Russia anyway so that's not really a concession Putin got in exchange for lowering gas prices. If they want to go to Crimea and attach it following any breakup, Crimea will easily turn Russian. It should never have been given to Ukraine anyway.


Say whatever you want, but Ukraine won't be any better off pissing on their Russian neighbors. Which is all this coup did. Their only way out is to pray the EU and America make them economic "wards of the state" and lavish them with welfare checks for many decades.


Which after watching what IMF did to Spain, Greece et al with austerity measures, doesn't seem likely!
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:36 AM   #154
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Her point was, in reality: "I'm unhappy my candidate lost the election. That's not fair."
I don't think that was her point. I'm not even sure that her candidate lost since she doesn't tell us who her candidate was. It's not like the issue that sparked these protests was an issue in the last campaign anyway. The guy who's hiding somewhere in eastern Ukraine didn't run on realigning with Russia.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:52 AM   #155
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The guy who's hiding somewhere in eastern Ukraine didn't run on realigning with Russia.
So? There was another planned election next year when the sad little weepy-eyed protestor chick had her next chance to vote him out. You see Pat, that's how democracies work.


Unfortunately, she was unable to accept the will of voters who thought differently and chose someone she didn't prefer. So she and her ilk did what every democracy must: violently overthrow their government.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:53 AM   #156
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I'm surprised we haven't seen this guy yet.

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Old 02-25-2014, 11:11 AM   #157
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Hopefully America never comes to a point of violence based on geography and political divides.
Unfortunately people think you're crazy when you say this, but I think it's closer than people can bring themselves to believe.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:11 AM   #158
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So? There was another planned election next year when the sad little weepy-eyed protestor chick had her next chance to vote him out. You see Pat, that's how democracies work.


Unfortunately, she was unable to accept the will of voters who thought differently and chose someone she didn't prefer. So she and her ilk did what every democracy must: violently overthrow their government.
I didn't see her do anything violent.

And my point was that she may well have voted for the guy who's hiding in eastern Ukraine, which would make your assumption about her guy losing incorrect.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:25 AM   #159
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And my point was that she may well have voted for the guy who's hiding in eastern Ukraine, which would make your assumption about her guy losing incorrect.
Are you trying to be absurd or is it coming naturally?
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:33 AM   #160
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Are you trying to be absurd or is it coming naturally?
I'm pointing out a huge flaw in your argument style, i.e. the assumption of facts not in evidence.
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:12 PM   #161
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It looks like Lviv, Ukraine was one of the 5 finalists for the 2022 Winter Olympics. That has to be in serious jeopardy right now, although one could argue that the costs & headaches associated with the Games might not have been worth it in the first place. Krakow, Poland is also a finalist and their city council just voted against moving forward.
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:19 PM   #162
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It looks like Lviv, Ukraine was one of the 5 finalists for the 2022 Winter Olympics. That has to be in serious jeopardy right now, although one could argue that the costs & headaches associated with the Games might not have been worth it in the first place. Krakow, Poland is also a finalist and their city council just voted against moving forward.
What's with all the commies getting the Olympics? Slave labor to build the venues?
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:28 PM   #163
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Who was the first to get violent in the protesting?
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:41 PM   #164
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I'm surprised we haven't seen this guy yet.

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Post #138, man.

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The Ukraine is weak!

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Old 02-25-2014, 12:56 PM   #165
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Who was the first to get violent in the protesting?
at 4am on November 30th, the Berkut (special riot police) attacked just about everybody in Maidan Square, protestors and non-involved citizens alike, with clubs, tear gas and stun grenades.
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