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Old 02-19-2014, 08:14 PM  
listopencil listopencil is offline
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Anyone Following The Protests In The Ukraine?

I've been seeing some impressive pics of protests in Kiev.


Protests against new anti-democratic laws in Ukraine are increasing in intensity, with four citizens reported dead. As you can see in these extraordinary images by Ilya Varlamov, the demonstrators are using rockets made with fireworks. They look like scenes from some science-fiction movie about urban warfare.

The latest reports talk about at least four people killed and hundreds injured by the police. After the massive protests against the government's rejection against the European Union in favor of an alliance with the former Russian oppressors, Kiev officials announced new repressive laws limiting the people's right to protest. These urban battles are the people's reaction to those laws.

Ukraine was a former Soviet Republic, created after a civil war between pro-communist and the Ukrainian People's Republic armies at the beginning of the 20th century, right after the fall of the Russian Empire. The communists won, and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was established. In theory, it was an independent state, but in fact—like all republics in the USSR and satellite countries—it was under a tight control by the Kremlin.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/spectacula...rai-1507432049

Pics to follow...
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:07 PM   #796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Leak of Nuland's phone call showing her plotting her interference in Ukraine and says Biden was willing too.
I don't hear anything objectionable.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:34 PM   #797
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I predict the US will eventually just back away from this. They don't have much of legal case for involvement and no international court is going to agree with them. What's left to do here? The coup was illegal and Russia will continue to wait this out by following the terms of their agreements which are still in force allowing them to be in Crimea.

The big wild card is China. They've been very silent in all this, so nobody knows what they're thinking. If China breaks with us publicly then our involvement is immediately over, unless we are truly crazy.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:15 PM   #798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I don't hear anything objectionable.
Of course you don't. You think that type of activity is okay. You'd go beserk if another country did that here though. No doubt about it. That's a good indication it's not acceptable behavior.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:17 PM   #799
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
I predict the US will eventually just back away from this.
I think so too. Sanctions on Russia would hurt us too. Let the NeoCons wail, gnash their teeth, writhe and scream as if they're in hell. They deserve to suffer like that for their cunning dishonesty and evil.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:25 PM   #800
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What you'll see is McCain hitting every Sunday morning news show and being a regular on Sean Hannity, blasting the admin for being "weak" and abandoning our new friends in Kiev. Then he'll demand a surge. This time however, nobody will pay any attention to him.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:26 PM   #801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
What you'll see is McCain hitting every Sunday morning news show and being a regular on Sean Hannity, blasting the admin for being "weak" and abandoning our new friends in Kiev. Then he'll demand a surge. This time however, nobody will pay any attention to him.
People are figuring it out. Including the American people. They see hypocrisy.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:08 PM   #802
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"It is not appropriate to invade a country, and at the end of a barrel of a gun dictate what you are trying to achieve. That is not 21st-century, G-8, major nation behavior." - John Kerry on Russia, 2014



"If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act." - John Kerry on Iraq, 2002
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:09 PM   #803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
The big wild card is China. They've been very silent in all this, so nobody knows what they're thinking. If China breaks with us publicly then our involvement is immediately over, unless we are truly crazy.

Really? Why would China get involved? And why would we fear to move forward with whatever our plan is if China "breaks with us"?

And breaking with us suggests that China was with us at some point to begin with...
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:10 PM   #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Of course you don't. You think that type of activity is okay. You'd go beserk if another country did that here though. No doubt about it. That's a good indication it's not acceptable behavior.
It's a delicate balance. On one hand no, I don't think it is appropriate for officials of the US to play puppetmaster in a foreign country. On the other hand yes, it is perfectly appropriate for them to engage in diplomatic relationships and act as agents of positive change.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:12 PM   #805
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It's a delicate balance. On one hand no, I don't think it is appropriate for officials of the US to play puppetmaster in a foreign country. On the other hand yes, it is perfectly appropriate for them to engage in diplomatic relationships and act as agents of positive change.
You need to realize that that kind of thought simply isn't possible for the binary thinkers of this world.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:13 PM   #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
"It is not appropriate to invade a country, and at the end of a barrel of a gun dictate what you are trying to achieve. That is not 21st-century, G-8, major nation behavior." - John Kerry on Russia, 2014



"If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act." - John Kerry on Iraq, 2002

U.N. Approves Terms for Surrender by Iraq : Diplomacy: Baghdad is ordered to halt 'hostile or provocative acts' and to release all of its war prisoners.

March 03, 1991|JOHN J. GOLDMAN and STANLEY MEISLER | TIMES STAFF WRITERS

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-03-...il-resolutions
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:14 PM   #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
"It is not appropriate to invade a country, and at the end of a barrel of a gun dictate what you are trying to achieve. That is not 21st-century, G-8, major nation behavior." - John Kerry on Russia, 2014



"If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act." - John Kerry on Iraq, 2002
And can you see the rather large distinction between the two?
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:16 PM   #808
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You need to realize that that kind of thought simply isn't possible for the binary thinkers of this world.
That is very difficult for me to grasp. Not your point, I understand that completely, I mean that I have a hard time entertaining that thought process.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:24 PM   #809
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
It's a delicate balance. On one hand no, I don't think it is appropriate for officials of the US to play puppetmaster in a foreign country. On the other hand yes, it is perfectly appropriate for them to engage in diplomatic relationships and act as agents of positive change.
Depends on how the bold is done. Otherwise, it's not maintaining neutrality. Stating ideas one favors is fine but more than that is questionable. There is no national security interest for us there. Or any other interest.

That's not what was being done in that instance when looked at within the context of other actions though.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:25 PM   #810
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That's rich hearing Donger call out "binary thinkers!" Pot calling kettle again.
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