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Old 02-19-2014, 09:14 PM  
listopencil listopencil is offline
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Anyone Following The Protests In The Ukraine?

I've been seeing some impressive pics of protests in Kiev.


Protests against new anti-democratic laws in Ukraine are increasing in intensity, with four citizens reported dead. As you can see in these extraordinary images by Ilya Varlamov, the demonstrators are using rockets made with fireworks. They look like scenes from some science-fiction movie about urban warfare.

The latest reports talk about at least four people killed and hundreds injured by the police. After the massive protests against the government's rejection against the European Union in favor of an alliance with the former Russian oppressors, Kiev officials announced new repressive laws limiting the people's right to protest. These urban battles are the people's reaction to those laws.

Ukraine was a former Soviet Republic, created after a civil war between pro-communist and the Ukrainian People's Republic armies at the beginning of the 20th century, right after the fall of the Russian Empire. The communists won, and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was established. In theory, it was an independent state, but in fact—like all republics in the USSR and satellite countries—it was under a tight control by the Kremlin.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/spectacula...rai-1507432049

Pics to follow...
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:31 PM   #826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
You're not a libertarian either if you're calling for govt oversight. I realize you support that but it's statist when the problem is due to too much govt oversight. I see this particularly based on these posts in this thread. You're defending a high level of statism at this point.
You've got it backwards, I will rephrase because you seem intent upon drowning conversation in labels and preconceived notions:

1) Our country will always have political relationships with other nations.

2) Our government has a built in set of checks and balances.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:33 PM   #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I stated my reasons several times for why. It does not serve any vital US security interests, or any other interests except for the globalists involved. Plus a whole host more inside the thread about the players involved and why they can't be trusted either.

BTW libertarianism is considered an extreme position too. One reason I am not one. So what are you talking about?

Don't give me this " I'm practical" because libertarianism is NOT practical. Although, what is extreme to one, is not to another...but libertarianism is still considered extreme by most.
What am I talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea
I've seen people commit crimes, actually felonies, using that rationale.

That statement is ridiculous.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:35 PM   #828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
I think we found out during Iraq, and now with the NSA story, that the US Government does in fact operate without oversight.
People (and agencies) in our government will attempt to. That's why it is your responsibility to uphold your end of being a citizen.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:40 PM   #829
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
What am I talking about?
Extremism, vacuums, the greater good, interfering in a territory dispute.




Quote:
That statement is ridiculous.
No it's what I have seen people say to justify some bad things in life and...including by govts.
I'm sure Putin thinks what he's doing is the greater good for his country, and Soros wanting a World Govt is his idea of a greater good. To a NeoCon making over the world into mini-Americas is their greater good.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:43 PM   #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Extremism, vacuums, the greater good, interfering in a territory dispute.
This is why someone like Donger asks you about your stand on historical wars. Your rationale ignores the impact of global conflict.


Quote:
No it's what I have seen people say to justify some bad things in life and...including by govts.
People and governments use lots of things to justify bad things. So what?
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:47 PM   #831
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Another day, another drastic career move from a RT reporter.

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Old 03-05-2014, 06:51 PM   #832
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
This is why someone like Donger asks you about your stand on historical wars. Your rationale ignores the impact of global conflict.
No Donger already knows my stands on historical wars. It's all over this board, more than once since 20006 with him in them. He's just trolling when he asks those questions. Or that's how I perceive it. I consider it diversionary which I posted. You missed much of his history with me. However, my stand on other wars is not relevant to this situation. No one attacked us and is the Ukraine is thousands of miles away. If it's any outsider's business it would first be Russia's, second it would be the EU's but not ours.

I am opposed to globalism and excessive internationalism regarding the petty disputes of others. But I cannot tolerate my own govt causing and instigating some of them, which is the case here.

Quote:
People and governments use lots of things to justify bad things. So what?
You left out doing them for the "greater good" though...and that was my point.

So now why all of a sudden do you appear in here after a long absence and post with hostility to me?
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:53 PM   #833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
1) Our country will always have political relationships with other nations.
Why should we? We wouldn't need them if we weren't trying to project our will over the whole world.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:00 PM   #834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost of Maslowski View Post
Another day, another drastic career move from a RT reporter.

That's interesting. I used to get RT, or some network that aired it a certain part of the day, when I lived in another part of the country and I watched it fairly often.

The international news coverage was left-wing enough to make MSNBC blush for the most part, but some of the off-the-beaten-path types of reports were quite interesting.

Well, interesting if you didn't mind picturing Karl Marx sitting on your couch chuckling along with you at how biased it was.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:00 PM   #835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No Donger already knows my stands on historical wars. He's just trolling when he asks those questions. You missed much of his history with me. However, my stand on other wars is not relevant to this situation. No one attacked us.
And I am saying that there will be situations where it is appropriate to take action even without being attacked. Not necessarily this one. It is complicated and it is certainly not over yet.


Quote:
You left out doing them for the "greater good" though...and that was my point.

So now why all of a sudden do you appear in here after a long absence and post with hostility to me?
As I said, "greater good" for lack of a better term. I used that term without the expectation of someone immediately running to the most extreme possible meaning of it. Perhaps that feeling of hostility that is coming across is because you are the one that picked up that ball and ran with it.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:01 PM   #836
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Why should we? We wouldn't need them if we weren't trying to project our will over the whole world.
Are you advocating zero diplomacy?
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:02 PM   #837
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
And I am saying that there will be situations where it is appropriate to take action even without being attacked. Not necessarily this one. It is complicated and it is certainly not over yet.
I know what you said.

Quote:
Perhaps that feeling of hostility that is coming across is because you are the one that picked up that ball and ran with it.
Didn't come across that way to me. Suddenly you appeared out of nowhere.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:02 PM   #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Are you advocating zero diplomacy?
What is diplomacy? An attempt to impose our will on others. I am for worrying about our own problems and not policing the world. That's what the constitution is all about.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:04 PM   #839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I know what you said.


Didn't come across that way to me. Suddenly you appeared out of nowhere.
I'm multitasking like you would not believe here. I can't even begin to go into it.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:05 PM   #840
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Are you advocating zero diplomacy?
I think he's saying when it comes to entanglements in other's situations it's more that we want to project our political will on them. That's the case much more often.

Diplomacy for ourselves is fine. Other than that, we should be more like the Swiss who do mediate a number of disputes but they do it from a politically neutral position. That's the difference.
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