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Old 02-19-2014, 08:14 PM  
listopencil listopencil is offline
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Anyone Following The Protests In The Ukraine?

I've been seeing some impressive pics of protests in Kiev.


Protests against new anti-democratic laws in Ukraine are increasing in intensity, with four citizens reported dead. As you can see in these extraordinary images by Ilya Varlamov, the demonstrators are using rockets made with fireworks. They look like scenes from some science-fiction movie about urban warfare.

The latest reports talk about at least four people killed and hundreds injured by the police. After the massive protests against the government's rejection against the European Union in favor of an alliance with the former Russian oppressors, Kiev officials announced new repressive laws limiting the people's right to protest. These urban battles are the people's reaction to those laws.

Ukraine was a former Soviet Republic, created after a civil war between pro-communist and the Ukrainian People's Republic armies at the beginning of the 20th century, right after the fall of the Russian Empire. The communists won, and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was established. In theory, it was an independent state, but in fact—like all republics in the USSR and satellite countries—it was under a tight control by the Kremlin.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/spectacula...rai-1507432049

Pics to follow...
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:45 PM   #871
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This Pravda writer doesn't even like Soros--calling him swine.
American conservatives don't like him either.

US subtle attack on Ukraine: Another attack on Christians

Have the protesters in America been locked up or do they love Soros and his swine? Why do they allow their government to spend billions to interfere in other countries that were in peace? In Libya, Egypt and Syria they opened the door for Christians to be martyred and persecuted with the help of Al-Qaeda without one word from the religious leaders in America. They dance in sing in their theaters of worship ignoring their brethren in the East.

The Ukraine turned to Russia and the failure of Soros' Orange revolution are obvious. US ambassador McFaul resigned the day after the American style shooting in Moscow. He succeeded for a while in the overthrow of the Ukraine. He failed in overthrowing Russia and keeping Putin out of office. So now they scream, "From hell's heart I stab at thee", and with one last attempt they pay protesters to riot and stir up their pot of evil.

"Double, Double, Toil and Trouble", says Nuland in a sweet attractive voice. Victoria Nuland, the Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs at the United States Department of State, makes it sound so nice when she spoke last December about helping out the Ukraine with 5 Billion dollars. It's for their independence and freedom she said. Of course it is. A more subtle approach then the Bomb & Missile Diplomacy they usually use. Then again that may be coming. Do they want a war with Russia?
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/col...ack_ukraine-0/
Goes onto say Obama hides behind Nuland's skirt and that Obama is a puppet of Soros.

There's quite a bit in this editorial that matches what I've been reading from Libertarian ( Ron Paul Institute and various other libertarians), Paleo Conservative writers (Pat Buchanan), a few outspoken voices in our mainstream media and British press. Thank gawd for alternative media here.
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:47 PM   #872
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
This Pravda writer doesn't even like Soros--calling him swine.
American conservatives don't like him either.

US subtle attack on Ukraine: Another attack on Christians
The billionaire capitalist? Hmmm.

Still going to bat for Communist Party-owned Pravda.
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:48 PM   #873
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
There is not one thing in that "link" that actually explains anything about this alleged FCC plan that isn't taking place.
May I ask what part of this line in there you do not understand?

Quote:
Fortunately, there was enough backlash to force the FCC to back off.
You lefties are king of strawmen aren't you?
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:52 PM   #874
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
May I ask what part of this line in there you do not understand?



You lefties are king of strawmen aren't you?
I understood that line--that this program was not going to happen. What the link did not explain was the details of the plan in the first place.

Anyway, I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to feel about a program that is not happening, but it has nothing to do with your support of Communist Party-owned media.
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:54 PM   #875
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I understood that line--that this program was not going to happen. What the link did not explain was the details of the plan in the first place.

Anyway, I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to feel about a program that is not happening, but it has nothing to do with your support of Communist Party-owned media.
Is there a communist party in Russia still?
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:55 PM   #876
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I understood that line--that this program was not going to happen. What the link did not explain was the details of the plan in the first place.

Anyway, I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to feel about a program that is not happening, but it has nothing to do with your support of Communist Party-owned media.

I feel like it was a pretty shitty program and I'm glad that it was stopped. I noted that Pravda seems to share a style with Faux Noise.
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:00 PM   #877
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Is there a communist party in Russia still?
Sure. They get more votes there than ron paul does here.
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:04 PM   #878
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Interesting...
The creation of Russia Today was a part of a larger propaganda effort by the Russian government intended to improve the image of Russia abroad.[13] RT was conceived by former media minister Mikhail Lesin,[14] and Vladimir Putin's press spokesperson Aleksei Gromov.[15] At the time of RT's founding, RIA Novosti director Svetlana Mironyuk stated: "Unfortunately, at the level of mass consciousness in the West, Russia is associated with three words: communism, snow and poverty," and added "We would like to present a more complete picture of life in our country."[14]
That would explain a little about the hard shift towards a more libertarian bent in their news. There is little doubt that RT tints their news from a libertarian perspective, and aims to appeal to libertarians. I'm leery of them, but there's little doubt that much of what I've seen from them I've found a hell of a lot more appealing than what I've read in the NYT or Washington Post. I don't follow them closely though... I pretty well read everything that RCP puts up, though much of it is very tedious... E.J. Dionne, Joan Walsh, and Eugene Robinson are all terrible. I'd take just about any given read in RT over the boiled tripe that these three put out.
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:06 PM   #879
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Is there a communist party in Russia still?
Apparently. They own Pravda.

According to Wikipedia:

Currently represented in the State Duma[edit]

United Russia
Conservatism, Statism, Pragmatism, Centrism - Dmitry Medvedev - 238 seats

Communist Party of the Russian Federation
Communism, Marxism–Leninism, Patriotism - Gennady Zyuganov - 92 seats

LDPR
Russian nationalism, Pan-Slavism, Neo–Imperialism, Mixed economy - Vladimir Zhirinovsky - 56 seats

A Just Russia
Social democracy, Democratic socialism - Nikolai Levichev - 64 seats
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:09 PM   #880
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Saying "**** the EU" is hardly planning diplomacy. She wants a country made in her eyes.

She lays down how a new government in Ukraine should be constituted; talks about "gluing together" a sovereign country and stipulates which members of the US-backed street rabble in Kiev should or should not be included in any Washington-approved new government in the former Soviet republic.

Diplomacy is not embroiling ourselves in internal conflict in that country in order to spread democracy? We're not even a democracy.

Spin it however you like but none of its diplomacy--not when you consider other things she has admitted and done. Such as spending $5 Billion on...
“Since the declaration of Ukrainian independence in 1991, the United States supported the Ukrainians in the development of democratic institutions and skills in promoting civil society and a good form of government - all that is necessary to achieve the objectives of Ukraine’s European aspirations. We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals. ” Nuland said the United States will continue to “promote Ukraine to the future it deserves.” ~ Victoria Nuland
This is nothing but interference that begs for trouble.
They're talking about coaching friendly factions within the existing government to help them move the country in the direction that both they and our government want it to move. They're not plotting a coup. Good grief.
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:10 PM   #881
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Interesting...
The creation of Russia Today was a part of a larger propaganda effort by the Russian government intended to improve the image of Russia abroad.[13] RT was conceived by former media minister Mikhail Lesin,[14] and Vladimir Putin's press spokesperson Aleksei Gromov.[15] At the time of RT's founding, RIA Novosti director Svetlana Mironyuk stated: "Unfortunately, at the level of mass consciousness in the West, Russia is associated with three words: communism, snow and poverty," and added "We would like to present a more complete picture of life in our country."[14]
That would explain a little about the hard shift towards a more libertarian bent in their news. There is little doubt that RT tints their news from a libertarian perspective, and aims to appeal to libertarians. I'm leery of them, but there's little doubt that much of what I've seen from them I've found a hell of a lot more appealing than what I've read in the NYT or Washington Post. I don't follow them closely though... I pretty well read everything that RCP puts up, though much of it is very tedious... E.J. Dionne, Joan Walsh, and Eugene Robinson are all terrible. I'd take just about any given read in RT over the boiled tripe that these three put out.
So, to clarify, what you find appealing is "a larger propaganda effort by the Russian government"

A lot of interesting posts tonight...
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:17 PM   #882
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So I ask you pat, would you tolerate the above being done in our country by a foreign power? Especially, one that's not acceptable to your ideology?
As I said earlier today, no I wouldn't.

1) I don't live in a country like Ukraine that has to worry about being dominated by a powerful neighbor. If I did, I would probably be anxious to receive help from the US to give my country the chance to develop the free society enjoyed by the west, particularly if I was afraid of being pulled back into the Russian orbit.

2) I see no reason why I should apologize for my pro-American bias or why I should adopt some neutral pov where consistent rules apply to all sides whether it's good for the US or not.
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:34 PM   #883
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
So, to clarify, what you find appealing is "a larger propaganda effort by the Russian government"

A lot of interesting posts tonight...

I find a lot of things appealing. Most appealing to me is the libertarian message. I'm leery of RT, but there's little doubt that they have picked up the libertarian message and have been using it as a platform to tint their news with. I don't understand their angle really, and have considered if for a long time. The best that I've been able to come up with is that by showing news with a hard libertarian bent to it, they undermine the US government, which has largely taken on a socialist bent.

There is no doubt that the source of RT makes me uneasy, but given the alternatives out there, frankly, I'm left shrugging. The New York Times is the most socialist newspaper in the mainstream, and I have no (real) idea who is behind it. I don't see any reason why I should trust it any more than any other news source, including RT... but that's doesn't quite hit the mark - There isn't a news source that I "trust." There are just a lot that I read. Though, that said, I don't really read RT because I don't really care to get caught in a confirmation bias loop with a Russian owned newspaper. I'd much rather get my confirmation bias by reading the moronic slop that our own state/establishment-run (I said it) media puts out.

Say what you want. I'm pretty secure in what and who I am, what I read, and what I believe.
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:01 PM   #884
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Reading Taki's Mag tonight and found this. Thought it gave another perspective from the view of an average man from the Ukraine who left. The writer says: "This was only one person’s opinion, but when it comes to understanding a country, one native plumber is worth a thousand foreign correspondents."
Just before the current troubles in Ukraine began, we called a plumber to our rented flat in Paris, which smelled of mold at the time. He was Ukrainian. He told us why he had left his native country a few years before: Everyone there was corrupt, nothing was possible without bribery, the opposition was as bad as the government, and all political demonstrations, which were frequent even then, were entirely bogus. Indeed, political demonstrations had become a form of social security, the political system’s corrupt and vastly rich oligarchs paying a small daily subvention to the otherwise unemployed who agreed to demonstrate in their favor. There was nothing to choose between the government and opposition except the size of the daily payments that they offered, which varied from day to day like the stock market. Principle didn’t come into it; demonstrators changed from pro-government to pro-opposition and vice versa, according to the amount on offer. http://takimag.com/article/the_wisdo...#axzz2vFg1yCct.
Sounds like a pretty crappy place to me. Geesh! Why are we wasting any money on it?

Also the same site had an interesting editorial by Steve Sailor, on the number of Russian billionaires that are Jewish, some even dual citizens of Israel. How the Russian speaking emigres to Israel have a better understanding of how Russia thinks. He suggests Putin would be wise to make allies out of some of them in Israel.
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:06 PM   #885
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Hey if the new Pravda can criticize Marxism/socialism and American capitalism being destroyed from it--I support that kind of editorial. It doesn't matter to me who writes it.
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