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Old 02-19-2014, 09:14 PM  
listopencil listopencil is offline
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Anyone Following The Protests In The Ukraine?

I've been seeing some impressive pics of protests in Kiev.


Protests against new anti-democratic laws in Ukraine are increasing in intensity, with four citizens reported dead. As you can see in these extraordinary images by Ilya Varlamov, the demonstrators are using rockets made with fireworks. They look like scenes from some science-fiction movie about urban warfare.

The latest reports talk about at least four people killed and hundreds injured by the police. After the massive protests against the government's rejection against the European Union in favor of an alliance with the former Russian oppressors, Kiev officials announced new repressive laws limiting the people's right to protest. These urban battles are the people's reaction to those laws.

Ukraine was a former Soviet Republic, created after a civil war between pro-communist and the Ukrainian People's Republic armies at the beginning of the 20th century, right after the fall of the Russian Empire. The communists won, and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was established. In theory, it was an independent state, but in fact—like all republics in the USSR and satellite countries—it was under a tight control by the Kremlin.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/spectacula...rai-1507432049

Pics to follow...
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Old 03-06-2014, 02:00 AM   #961
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
After watching that video, no, it doesn't sound anything like what Russia did.
I don't know what you're referring to with this.

But I think you are comparing to Grenada. I remember people calling it an invasion and that it was illegal...blah, blah, blah.

How about our invasion of Iraq? Bombing of Libya?
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Old 03-06-2014, 02:01 AM   #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I don't know what you're referring to with this.

But I think you are comparing to Grenada. I remember people calling it an invasion and that it was illegal...blah, blah, blah.

How about our invasion of Iraq? Bombing of Libya?
I am referring to comparing our invasion of Grenada with Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The situations aren't anything alike.
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Old 03-06-2014, 02:02 AM   #963
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That was one of three reasons for the invasion that he gave. Watch the video. The Prime Minister and several cabinet members were assassinated.
Yeah I know. But people called him out for invading. It's still an invasion. Putin has claimed the right to protect Russians...there is fighting going on. I posted earlier a news report about rebel snipers. And the barricades are huge...if protestors put those up here they'd be treated roughly.
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Old 03-06-2014, 02:05 AM   #964
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
I am referring to comparing our invasion of Grenada with Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The situations aren't anything alike.
No one said they were. No conflict is exactly alike. I just said it was considered an invasion. Reagan claimed to be protecting Americans there and that he was asked for help. This is what Russia claims.

Look I am not going to take a side on this. I think this has been provoked by the west, and I can understand some of the rationale by Russia based on issues with NATO, the EU and the West. I don't think we have any moral high ground to stand on after what's happened in the past decade.
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Old 03-06-2014, 02:11 AM   #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Yeah I know. But people called him out for invading. It's still an invasion. Putin has claimed the right to protect Russians...there is fighting going on. I posted earlier a news report about rebel snipers. And the barricades are huge...if protestors put those up here they'd be treated roughly.

And no one said they were. No conflict is exactly alike. I just said it was considered an invasion. Reagan claimed to be protecting Americans there and that he was asked for help. This is what Russia claims.

Look I am not going to take a side on this. I think this has been provoked by the west, and I can understand some of the rationale by Russia based on issues with NATO, the EU and the West. I don't think we have any moral high ground to stand on after what's happened in the past decade.
I'm just concerned with what can be considered the rightful government of the nation. It looks to me like the present government is legitimate. If that is the case then all other nations should stand back and let them sort themselves out.
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Old 03-06-2014, 02:21 AM   #966
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
I'm just concerned with what can be considered the rightful government of the nation. It looks to me like the present government is legitimate. If that is the case then all other nations should stand back and let them sort themselves out.
I have no interest in their internal affairs. Although, I don't think it's correct.
I am just saying, whether the Russians being in the Crimea is legal or not, the stated purpose is to protect Russians...and the Russians in the Crimea have welcomed them. And the overthrow of the previous guy was instigated by us. Also the Orange Revolution. There is an outside fight for the Ukraine.

I did just get an answer as to why the Russian troops are not wearing any identifying insignia--it puts the Russians outside the protections of the Geneva Conventions and the rules of war. But it makes the Russians fair game for Ukrainian troops and any militias. Now that's scarey!
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:34 AM   #967
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Putin's unmarked troops take over Crimea (that would be WITHIN a sovereign country's borders), give power to a pro-Russian gangster who got all of 3% of the popular vote in the last election he ran in and this is the conclusion BEP reaches.

I just cannot believe how someone can call Europe tyrannical while defending a country invading another country on completely asinine premises. The same country that probably has the 2nd best propaganda machine outside of North Korea. A country where media is 100% controlled by the government, which in turn is controlled by a single man. This is the country that imprisons or kills activists, lawyers and journalists who openly criticize or question their government. Hell, an extremely well respected Professor tenured in the most prestigious learning institution in all of Russia just got fired yesterday for expressing his opinion in an essay which compared Putin's recent actions to Hitler's Anschluss in 1938.

This is a country run by a man who sends fully armed troops with troop transports and light armor into a sovereign country, claims it's for protection of that sovereign country and Russian interests therein. He later changes his mind and says that no Russian troops ever entered that sovereign country and that it's simply the country's own militia gathering to protect the region from neo-Nazis, fascists and ultra-nationalists. When he gets called out on how well equipped they're, he states that one can get all that gear at any military surplus store (). In the meantime, this self-defense militia surrounds every local military base and outpost and demands the surrender of the troops inside.

This of course all makes sense to the brainwashed citizens of Russia along with our own resident posters, BEP and Prison Bitch.

Sending thousands of Russian citizens with Russian flags into eastern parts if Ukraine to make it looks like Ukrainians have been dying for Russia to come and save the day, inciting unrest and violence and trying to provoke other citizens sounds completely normal and fine.

Claiming that there's violence, looting and anarchy in the country and that 150,000 displaced refuges have already made their way across the border as a result when neither thing is even remotely true sounds completely normal and fine.

It's a good thing we have Russia out there trying to protect the world against those big bad European and American tyrants.
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:38 AM   #968
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:39 AM   #969
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Pants' entrance in this thread kicked off a scene that reminds me of the end of Nicky in Casino
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:41 AM   #970
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:53 AM   #971
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So if Crimea votes to go back to Russia does the MSM paint it as an Obama victory?
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:06 AM   #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I have no interest in their internal affairs. Although, I don't think it's correct.
I am just saying, whether the Russians being in the Crimea is legal or not, the stated purpose is to protect Russians...and the Russians in the Crimea have welcomed them. And the overthrow of the previous guy was instigated by us. Also the Orange Revolution. There is an outside fight for the Ukraine.

I did just get an answer as to why the Russian troops are not wearing any identifying insignia--it puts the Russians outside the protections of the Geneva Conventions and the rules of war. But it makes the Russians fair game for Ukrainian troops and any militias. Now that's scarey!
Russian citizens or ethnic Russians who speak Russian?

I'd say that there is a MASSIVE difference between the two.
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:08 AM   #973
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:08 AM   #974
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Sure, but if the interim President is the rightful leader of Ukraine then Russia invaded. The Crimean leader doesn't have the authority to ask for aid.
You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:09 AM   #975
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