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Old 02-19-2014, 08:14 PM  
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Anyone Following The Protests In The Ukraine?

I've been seeing some impressive pics of protests in Kiev.


Protests against new anti-democratic laws in Ukraine are increasing in intensity, with four citizens reported dead. As you can see in these extraordinary images by Ilya Varlamov, the demonstrators are using rockets made with fireworks. They look like scenes from some science-fiction movie about urban warfare.

The latest reports talk about at least four people killed and hundreds injured by the police. After the massive protests against the government's rejection against the European Union in favor of an alliance with the former Russian oppressors, Kiev officials announced new repressive laws limiting the people's right to protest. These urban battles are the people's reaction to those laws.

Ukraine was a former Soviet Republic, created after a civil war between pro-communist and the Ukrainian People's Republic armies at the beginning of the 20th century, right after the fall of the Russian Empire. The communists won, and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was established. In theory, it was an independent state, but in fact—like all republics in the USSR and satellite countries—it was under a tight control by the Kremlin.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/spectacula...rai-1507432049

Pics to follow...
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:42 AM   #1321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
What are you reading. Ive been going throughout the BBC info going back a couple years, the Maidan site, Maidan on Facebook, and a few others that are English. The issues with regard to the EU and the relationship with the World bank predate the "coup" as you call it by a long time. There have been monitory issue US has been involved in for a long time.
He's partial to Russia state-owned media.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:43 AM   #1322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
What are you reading. Ive been going throughout the BBC info going back a couple years, the Maidan site, Maidan on Facebook, and a few others that are English. The issues with regard to the EU and the relationship with the World bank predate the "coup" as you call it by a long time. There have been monitory issue US has been involved in for a long time.
The Prison Bitch facts strewn through out this thread are hilarious.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:43 AM   #1323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
He's partial to Russia Putin-owned media.
FYP
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:44 AM   #1324
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HonestChief: I have no doubts that the world, partic Europe and Russia, have had keen interest in that plot of land for many moons that far predate Maidam. I've been restricting my comments on recent actions there because a long-term view (such as discussing Crimea in the 1700s) is way too broad a scope to discuss.

If you want to know the real genesis of this whole thing, it dates back to the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the West's promise to Gorby that if East Germany was allowed to reunify with West Germany, we (NATO) wouldn't go any further east towards them. That was a lie. We pushed NATO to their front edge - with planted missiles that point right at them - and for some strange reason they're reacting angrily to it.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:45 AM   #1325
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
In terms of being called a shill, I feel like I came out on top. It's like being associated with supermodels instead of nasty hags or smelly, hairy men.
Wasn't using that word personally against you, just seems like thats what many here think.

I probably should've found a word that didn't have such negative connotations
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:50 AM   #1326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
HonestChief: I have no doubts that the world, partic Europe and Russia, have had keen interest in that plot of land for many moons that far predate Maidam. I've been restricting my comments on recent actions there because a long-term view (such as discussing Crimea in the 1700s) is way too broad a scope to discuss.

If you want to know the real genesis of this whole thing, it dates back to the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the West's promise to Gorby that if East Germany was allowed to reunify with West Germany, we (NATO) wouldn't go any further east towards them. That was a lie. We pushed NATO to their front edge - with planted missiles that point right at them - and for some strange reason they're reacting angrily to it.

Here is a rather detailed look from BBC. Lots of stuff you have sort of thrown out there is really at odds with other sources.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:51 AM   #1327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Here is a rather detailed look from BBC. Lots of stuff you have sort of thrown out there is really at odds with other sources.
The lack of a link was some very nice unintentional comedy. Well done.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:56 AM   #1328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
The lack of a link was some very nice unintentional comedy. Well done.

My error..

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25182823
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:07 PM   #1329
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
I just read your link, it seems like a very accurate assessment of events. I'm not certain why you're suggesting I read it. Was there something I have written that disputes anything the BBC wrote there?
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:07 PM   #1330
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What does George Soros have to gain in this deal. He should be burned and buried IMO. But that aside, on the Maidan comments on FB he comes up from time to time and creates a lot of heat on all sides it seems.
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:09 PM   #1331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
I just read your link, it seems like a very accurate assessment of events. I'm not certain why you're suggesting I read it. Was there something I have written that disputes anything the BBC wrote there?

You read goddamn fast. Im still not done and have probably been reading for an hour…you clicked through the backup info? Comeon….really?
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:16 PM   #1332
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Wasn't using that word personally against you, just seems like thats what many here think.

I probably should've found a word that didn't have such negative connotations
No problem. I don't mind when people call me shill or neocon or whatever. I know that being right is nothing to be ashamed of.
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Old 03-08-2014, 01:37 PM   #1333
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
You read goddamn fast. Im still not done and have probably been reading for an hour…you clicked through the backup info? Comeon….really?
Sure, I skimmed most of it. It was information I already knew and nothing stuck out to me as controversial. Now, do you have something specific you found that I did not?
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:56 AM   #1334
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:02 AM   #1335
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
It's been laid out over numerous posts on this thread so I won't rehash it all but the overarching themes I believe are:

1. It's none of our business and getting involved is beyond stupid

2. I don't believe in secessions or coups, whether its the American South or in Ukraine

3. The coup in Kiev was a total affront to anyone, like me, who believes in democracy even in places where it's not very efficient

4. We would take the exact same actions as Russia is in the event something similar happened nearby. Just as JFK did in Cuba

5. I don't like Obama or his policies but I accept he is our rightful leader. I was outvoted. It happens in democracies
I agree for the most part, but I don't think #4 is probably accurate.

If there was a coup in Canada by communists or something, I don't see us sending in any troops to protect Americans living in Canada or ethnic Americans or whatever fig leaf you want to make up, or trying to leverage the situation to annex part of Canada.
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