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Old 02-24-2014, 08:22 PM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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The new environmental activist tactic - censorship

Heating up: Climate change advocates try to silence Krauthammer

By Howard Kurtz
Published February 24, 2014FoxNews.com

Charles Krauthammer says it right up front in his Washington Post column: “I’m not a global warming believer. I’m not a global warming denier.”

He does, however, challenge the notion that the science on climate change is settled and says those who insist otherwise are engaged in “a crude attempt to silence critics and delegitimize debate.”

How ironic, then, that some environmental activists launched a petition urging the Post not to publish Krauthammer’s column on Friday.

Their response to opinions they disagree with is to suppress the speech.

Brad Johnson (@ClimateBrad), the editor of HillHeat.com and a former Think Progress staffer, boasted on Twitter that 110,000 people had urged the newspaper “to stop publishing climate lies” like the Krauthammer piece.

I understand that many people are passionate about global warming and consider skeptics to be flat-earthers. Those who don’t like the arguments by Krauthammer, a Fox News contributor, should by all means criticize, dispute, denounce and otherwise go at him. That’s how debate takes place in a country with a vibrant media culture.

Instead, these folks believe that censorship is preferable. Why engage Krauthammer when they might just be able to employ pressure tactics to silence him? And what’s the difference between this and shouting down a speaker at a town hall?

Krauthammer told me the petition-signers “showed up just in time to make precisely the point I made in the column.”

When it comes to free speech, he says, “they don’t even hide it anymore. Now they proudly want certain arguments banished from discourse. The next step is book burning. So the question of the day is: Can you light a Kindle?

“Is there anything more anti-scientific than scientific truths being determined by petition and demonstration?”

Maybe this reflects a broader trend in which people want to wall themselves off from contrary information — and wall off others as well. Debating a complicated subject like climate change — and, equally important, what to do about it — is difficult. Attempting to silence the other side is the easy way out.

Of course, most climate-change proponents are perfectly willing to argue their case on the merits. Unfortunately, that doesn’t apply to everyone.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...e-krauthammer/
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:45 PM   #31
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
No worse than thinking they are determined by public debate among lay people.

>99% of the population doesn't understand enough of the basic science to even have an informed opinion on anthropogenic climate change, and I'm pretty sure that the 99% includes Charles Krauthammer. What are his qualifications for being granted space in the Washington Post to air his views on science? Why should anyone care what he thinks about something that he has no training in and hasn't spent enough time to come to a high level of understanding?
Did you read his column?
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:46 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Someone doesn't know what censorship means.
My guess is that it's you.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:54 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
So you see, there is no consensus among scientists even. That's just someone's assertion and it's just not true.

So far your examples are Richard Lindzen, who agrees that anthropogenic climate change is happening, but argues mostly about how bad it will be.

And a discredited report paid for by the Heritage Institute.

You have discredited people and outliers.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:58 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Did you read his column?
Yes, did you read the three links I posted?
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:00 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I don't want to get into a pateeu-type semantics debate, but "censorship" and raising "free speech" issues generally imply a govt suppression of speech, which obviously isn't the case here.

The Washington Post certainly has a right to "censor" its own content, and what happened here was people asking the WP not to publish what they think is false information.

If people telling a newspaper it shouldn't publish something false is suppressing free speech what is telling those people that they shouldn't make the request? Howard Kurtz, Fox, and Charles Krauthammer hate free speech!
It's not semantics when you get the definition wrong, it's just wrong. mlyonsd used "censorship" correctly in the thread title. Give the dictionary a try.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:01 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
You still don't get what I mean by political do you? I mean a govt solution via the UN as the governing body. Plus scientists like to have jobs created for them by govts.

Geesh!
The NPICC is equivalent to the studies the tobacco companies used to put out that said cigarette smoking doesn't cause cancer. That shows how desperate the deniers have become.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:02 PM   #37
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I don't want to get into a pateeu-type semantics debate, but "censorship" and raising "free speech" issues generally imply a govt suppression of speech, which obviously isn't the case here.

The Washington Post certainly has a right to "censor" its own content, and what happened here was people asking the WP not to publish what they think is false information.

If people telling a newspaper it shouldn't publish something false is suppressing free speech what is telling those people that they shouldn't make the request? Howard Kurtz, Fox, and Charles Krauthammer hate free speech!
This could be your weakest post ever.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:06 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
This could be your weakest post ever.
My weakest post is better than most people's strongest post.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
Yes, did you read the three links I posted?
Yes. They seem to vindicate Krauthammer's thesis that the science isn't settled while constructing strawmen to refute.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:14 PM   #40
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
It's not semantics when you get the definition wrong, it's just wrong. mlyonsd used "censorship" correctly in the thread title. Give the dictionary a try.
By any definition, the activists are not censoring anybody.

But I wonder if Kurtz or Krauthammer would use their columns to carry a full rebuttal from the activists, or maybe an essay from you or me. To not do so would be censorship, which clearly cannot be allowed.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:15 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Yes. They seem to vindicate Krauthammer's thesis that the science isn't settled while constructing strawmen to refute.
Krauthhammer was the one constructing strawmen. See the middle link.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:24 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
So far your examples are Richard Lindzen, who agrees that anthropogenic climate change is happening, but argues mostly about how bad it will be.
No Lindzen does not agree GW is man-made.

http://newmexico.watchdog.org/15128/...-presentation/


Lindzen does not side with GW alarmists ( which is the difference here) but that any warming is slight. I agree there is some change but is too little for alarm--in fact is beneficial. So do scientists who have signed the Oregon Petition Institute.

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And a discredited report paid for by the Heritage Institute.

You have discredited people and outliers.
Nope. In your opinion and reliance on logical fallacy. So, none of this is an argument for declaring there is a consensus among scientists. There isn't.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:26 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
By any definition, the activists are not censoring anybody.

But I wonder if Kurtz or Krauthammer would use their columns to carry a full rebuttal from the activists, or maybe an essay from you or me. To not do so would be censorship, which clearly cannot be allowed.
Now who is trying to hide behind semantics? The activists certainly have no power to censor anyone, but they are calling on the Washington Post to censor someone as the thread OP indicates.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:32 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No Lindzen does not agree GW is man-made.

http://newmexico.watchdog.org/15128/...-presentation/


Lindzen does not side with GW alarmists ( which is the difference here) but that any warming is slight. I agree there is some change but is too little for alarm--in fact is beneficial. So do scientists who have signed the Oregon Petition Institute.



Nope. In your opinion and reliance on logical fallacy. So, none of this is an argument for declaring there is a consensus among scientists. There isn't.
Problems with your OPI (most of them have never studied climate):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:40 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Nope. In your opinion and reliance on logical fallacy. So, none of this is an argument for declaring there is a consensus among scientists. There isn't.
Explain why climate scientists have not formed a consensus opinion on the matter.
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