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Old 02-26-2014, 07:07 PM  
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
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Down goes Arizonas Anti-gay Bill

Governor vetoes it.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:07 AM   #121
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Try to keep up. That has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.
Are you talking to yourself? You should be. It has everything to do with this comment of yours:
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post

I just can't see any valid justification for Religion making the cut.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:34 AM   #122
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Hey Trolly here is Title II of the 1964 Civil Rights Act

Quote:
Title II

Outlawed discrimination based on race, color, religion or national origin in hotels, motels, restaurants, theaters, and all other public accommodations engaged in interstate commerce; exempted private clubs without defining the term "private"

It doesn't even include gays as a protected class. Seems to me that suing people over their religion because they won't make a gay marriage photo or bake a gay marriage cake is what is unConstitutional. That is happening. There's the case in New Mexico.

I call that fascism.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:53 AM   #123
Trolly McTrollson Trolly McTrollson is offline
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Who are these people who go into the wedding planing business and get freaked out by gay stuff? C'mon, man.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:56 AM   #124
Trolly McTrollson Trolly McTrollson is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
But what if you're forced to make a photo of their wedding or bake their cake and put a statuette of two men or two women on top?
The horror!
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:19 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
The horror!
Maybe not to you...but it is for some religious people. You lack tolerance of others too.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:21 AM   #126
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Plus you don't even know what part of the CR Act of 1964 was based on enough to articulate an argument -- not based solely on emotion.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:41 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
At the risk of sounding patronizing, there's more to US law than what's explicitly written in the Constitution. The Civil Rights Act of 1964, which is the law of the land (again, not trying to sound patronizing), pretty clearly lays out public accommodations law. You can't just refuse to let gays or blacks into your restaurant, sry.
The CRA of 1964 doesn't apply to sexual orientation.

Despite that, if gays are ever refused service in a restaurant it's so anomalous that I've never heard of it. It just doesn't happen enough to rise to the level of being considered a problem.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:43 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
At what part has any of that been a thing that practicing Christians can't do? Where's the Christian injunction against photographing gay weddings, and what's the scriptural support?

It's made-up-on-the-spot theology made up to rationalize hate, pure and simple. Ought to be appalling to real Christians, using God's name like that.


NB: WTF is the difference between baking a gay wedding cake and a regular cake? Extra glitter in the batter?
Telling people how to practice their religion is a terrible way to make the case that religious people aren't having their free practice infringed upon.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:47 AM   #129
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But that's just it - you cannot separate the two.

One's race is their race from birth no matter what they do, how they act, or what they choose. There is never at any moment in time the ability or option to choose one's race nor is it ever reflective of any other aspect of that person's choices or who they are. It is innate, never changing, never moving and does not require one to act upon any urge or choice of lifestyle.

The same cannot ever be said about sexuality. Even if someone truly feels they were born that way, there are still thought processes involved, emotions, conflicts, and decisions - to act upon said urges, to keep secret or proclaim it, etc - things that can never exist in the same way as, say, one's race.

All other discussions on the matter are about as relevant as debating which side of a drinking straw is up or down. Sexuality is a decision made at a point in time (be it purely a choice or acting upon one's genetic makeup) and can change overtime. Therefore, it is fundamentally flawed when sexuality is categorized as a 'protected class' akin to race or gender. Allowing such would mean having to allow other such choices which eventually lead to a continuum between two 'protected classes' of choice and ultimately chaos.
One time in a restaurant, one of my daughters was really bummed out because everyone in the family got one of those bendy straws but she just got a plain straw. I told her to take it out and turn it over and the problem was solved.

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Old 02-28-2014, 09:53 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
You're not condoning anyone's sin by serving them lunch. You don't have to approve of gays or like them. You don't have to hang out with them after work and watch The View. You just can't violate their right to public accommodations.

Do you refuse to serve atheists or adulterers at your place of business? If you sell a cheeseburger to a bank robber are you complicit in their sin? Frankly, this is new to me. I've never heard Christians say they can't do business with sinners before. Are you guys allowed to buy from stores that are owned/operated by gays?
If a person who opposes abortion on religious grounds owns some commercial real estate, should they be forced to lease space to an abortion clinic? What if the real estate is owned by a closely held corporation whose shareholders oppose abortion on religious grounds?
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:42 AM   #131
Trolly McTrollson Trolly McTrollson is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Maybe not to you...but it is for some religious people. You lack tolerance of others too.
I have no problem at all doing business with Christians or gays or whoever.

What I don't have is any respect for people who practice bigotry in the name of religion --these shrinking violets who face an existential threat simply by exchanging goods and services with a gay person. Oh heavens to Betsy, a man with an earring walked into my store! Fetch me my fan and a glass of cold lemonade, I feel faint!
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:47 AM   #132
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I wonder if the owners of restaurant who don't want to serve homosexuals are aware that they probably have and do anyway, unless they are being openly "gay" with their behavior?
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:51 AM   #133
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I wonder if the owners of restaurant who don't want to serve homosexuals are aware that they probably have and do anyway, unless they are being openly "gay" with their behavior?

Have there been any cases where this has happened?
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:56 AM   #134
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Have there been any cases where this has happened?
I would think more often than not.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:57 AM   #135
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I wonder if the owners of restaurant who don't want to serve homosexuals are aware that they probably have and do anyway, unless they are being openly "gay" with their behavior?
I'm sure they do. Do owners of restaurants who refuse to serve homosexuals actually exist? I'm not so sure about that.
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