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Old 02-27-2014, 01:44 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Greenpeace co-founder: No scientific evidence of man-made global warming

There is no scientific evidence that human activity is causing the planet to warm, according to Greenpeace co-founder Patrick Moore, who testified in front of a Senate committee on Tuesday.

Moore argued that the current argument that the burning of fossil fuels is driving global warming over the past century lacks scientific evidence. He added that the Earth is in an unusually cold period and some warming would be a good thing.

“There is no scientific proof that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are the dominant cause of the minor warming of the Earth’s atmosphere over the past 100 years,” according to Moore’s prepared testimony. “Today, we live in an unusually cold period in the history of life on earth and there is no reason to believe that a warmer climate would be anything but beneficial for humans and the majority of other species.”

“It is important to recognize, in the face of dire predictions about a [two degrees Celsius] rise in global average temperature, that humans are a tropical species,” Moore said. “We evolved at the equator in a climate where freezing weather did not exist. The only reasons we can survive these cold climates are fire, clothing, and housing.”

“It could be said that frost and ice are the enemies of life, except for those relatively few species that have evolved to adapt to freezing temperatures during this Pleistocene Ice Age,” he added. “It is ‘extremely likely’ that a warmer temperature than today’s would be far better than a cooler one.”

Indeed, cold weather is more likely to cause death than warm weather. RealClearScience reported that from “1999 to 2010, a total of 4,563 individuals died from heat, but 7,778 individuals died from the cold.” Only in 2006 did heat-related deaths outnumber cold deaths.

In Britain, 24,000 people are projected to die this winter because they cannot afford to pay their energy bills. Roughly 4.5 million British families are facing “fuel poverty.”

“The fact that we had both higher temperatures and an ice age at a time when CO2 emissions were 10 times higher than they are today fundamentally contradicts the certainty that human-caused CO2 emissions are the main cause of global warming,” Moore said.

“When modern life evolved over 500 million years ago, CO2 was more than 10 times higher than today, yet life flourished at this time,” he added. “Then an Ice Age occurred 450 million years ago when CO2 was 10 times higher than today.”

Moore, a Canadian, helped found the environmental activist group Greenpeace in the 1970s. He left the group after they began to take on more radical positions. He has since been a critic of radical environmentalism and heads up the group Ecosense Environmental in Vancouver, Canada.

Moore’s comments come after President Obama declared global warming a “fact” in the State of the Union. His administration has attempted to argue that the recent U.S. cold snap was influenced by a warmer planet.

Climate scientists, however, have been struggling to explain why global surface temperatures have not risen in the last 17 years and why atmospheric temperatures have been flat for the last decade.

“From 1910 to 1940 there was an increase in global average temperature of [0.5 degrees Celsius] over that 30-year period,” Moore said. “Then there was a 30-year ‘pause’ until 1970. This was followed by an increase of [0.57 degrees Celsius] during the 30-year period from 1970 to 2000. Since then there has been no increase, perhaps a slight decrease, in average global temperature.”

“This in itself tends to negate the validity of the computer models, as CO2 emissions have continued to accelerate during this time,” the former environmental activist added. “The increase in temperature between 1910-1940 was virtually identical to the increase between 1970-2000.”



“Yet the IPCC does not attribute the increase from 1910-1940 to ‘human influence.’” Moore continued. “They are clear in their belief that human emissions impact only the increase ‘since the mid-20th century.’ Why does the IPCC believe that a virtually identical increase in temperature after 1950 is caused mainly by ‘human influence,’ when it has no explanation for the nearly identical increase from 1910-1940?”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/25/gr...#ixzz2uYNML96F
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:56 PM   #31
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Bored... here's a breakdown of Moore's statements....

Quote:
“There is no scientific proof that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are the dominant cause of the minor warming of the Earth’s atmosphere over the past 100 years,”
This is actually a true statement. Key words being "Dominant" and "Past 100 years". But that said, there's absolutely clear proof that human emissions have been a contributing cause over the past 40 years. It's proven that humans are contributing. But how much is certainly debatable.

Quote:
“Today, we live in an unusually cold period in the history of life on earth and there is no reason to believe that a warmer climate would be anything but beneficial for humans and the majority of other species.”

“It is important to recognize, in the face of dire predictions about a [two degrees Celsius] rise in global average temperature, that humans are a tropical species,” Moore said. “We evolved at the equator in a climate where freezing weather did not exist. The only reasons we can survive these cold climates are fire, clothing, and housing.”

“It could be said that frost and ice are the enemies of life, except for those relatively few species that have evolved to adapt to freezing temperatures during this Pleistocene Ice Age,” he added. “It is ‘extremely likely’ that a warmer temperature than today’s would be far better than a cooler one.”
This however, is a complete mess. He's approaching it as if human comfort level is all that's necessary for our civilization. Like all we have to do is just put shorts on and life goes on. But a 2 degree rise could produce changes that affect entire ecosystems. We're already seeing drastic changes in animal migration habits that we've never encountered before. Oceans are warming, and it already affecting photoplankton, which serve as the base of the entire ocean's food chain. There are thousands of reasons why a warmer climate would bring considerable changes. Probably the most important is food production. Right now, California is in the midst of a drought that could devastate produce for the entire year. I don't understand how some people can see the things happening right now, and disregard any connection to a warming climate.

Quote:
“1999 to 2010, a total of 4,563 individuals died from heat, but 7,778 individuals died from the cold.”
This is tragically brain melting retarded stupid.

Quote:
“The fact that we had both higher temperatures and an ice age at a time when CO2 emissions were 10 times higher than they are today fundamentally contradicts the certainty that human-caused CO2 emissions are the main cause of global warming,”
It's true we've had both higher temps and an ice age in the past when CO2 emissions were higher. But the fact is that our civilization would have seriously struggled through those times. He's basically saying it was both hotter and colder at times in the past, and the Earth still exists, and that's his proof. But it says nothing about the number of species that went extinct because of those hotter/colder ages.

Quote:
“From 1910 to 1940 there was an increase in global average temperature of [0.5 degrees Celsius] over that 30-year period,” Moore said. “Then there was a 30-year ‘pause’ until 1970. This was followed by an increase of [0.57 degrees Celsius] during the 30-year period from 1970 to 2000. Since then there has been no increase, perhaps a slight decrease, in average global temperature.”

“This in itself tends to negate the validity of the computer models, as CO2 emissions have continued to accelerate during this time,” the former environmental activist added. “The increase in temperature between 1910-1940 was virtually identical to the increase between 1970-2000.”
This is mostly true. But it's not as simple as just looking at temp vs. CO2. The 40s-70s plateau is contributed to the Pacific Ocean experiencing a longer than normal Nina and a weak solar cycle. They've also attributed some of the cooling to volcanic activity.

Here's a good explanation: http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-change-pause/

And their conclusion FWIW:

Quote:
Despite any pause in the trend toward hotter temperatures, the first decade of the 21st century was the hottest based on records kept since the 1880s—and it included record heat waves in Russia and the U.S. as well as a precipitous meltdown of Arctic sea ice and surging sea level rise. Atmospheric concentrations of CO2 touched 400 parts per million on Mauna Loa in May, a first in the time line of human existence. A cooler Pacific stuck in a La Niña rut may have restrained global warming for the past decade or so, Xie notes, but it is unlikely to last. "This effect of natural variability will be averaged out over a period of 100 years," he says, "and cannot argue away the threat of persistent anthropogenic warming that is occurring now."
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:04 PM   #32
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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You guys need to learn the difference between global warming . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
President Obama declared global warming a “fact” in the State of the Union.
. . . and climate change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by President Obama in the State of the Union
Climate change is a fact.
What you have here is the quoted article lying to support their agenda.

On that, it would help if you learned the difference between a deliberately slanted, agenda-driven faux-news source . . .
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
. . . and legitimacy. This just makes you look stupid, when you aren't.
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:05 PM   #33
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If the Earth once had an ice age when CO2 levels were 10 times higher than now, what other variable was in play? There must have been one, right? Less solar heating?
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:05 PM   #34
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Like I've repeatedly said.... all you have to do to find the truth is throw out any climate change articles that involve anything political, monetary, or calls for any action. Ignore all of those, and focus on what's left from sources that aren't wanting to take your money or tax you or convince you to ride a bike. Look at those and tell me what pattern you see. Investigate actual data instead of this politicized bullshit from paid spokespeople who are receiving money for their opinion. You can look directly at the data without any attached opinions on its meaning.
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:07 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
If the Earth once had an ice age when CO2 levels were 10 times higher than now, what other variable was in play? There must have been one, right? Less solar heating?
Yes.

This explains it nicely: http://www.skepticalscience.com/CO2-...Ordovician.htm

Quote:
An argument used against the warming effect of carbon dioxide is that millions of years ago, CO2 levels were higher during periods where large glaciers formed over the Earth's poles. This argument fails to take into account that solar output was also lower during these periods. The combined effect of sun and CO2 show good correlation with climate (Royer 2006). The one period that until recently puzzled paleoclimatologists was the late Ordovician, around 444 million years ago. At this time, CO2 levels were very high, around 5600 parts per million (in contrast, current CO2 levels are 389 parts per million). However, glaciers were so far-reaching during the late Ordovician, it coincided with one of the largest marine mass extinction events in Earth history. How did glaciation occur with such high CO2 levels? Recent data has revealed CO2 levels at the time of the late Ordovician ice age were not that high after all.

Past studies on the Ordovician period calculated CO2 levels at 10 million year intervals. The problem with such coarse data sampling is the Ordovician ice age lasted only half a million years. To fill in the gaps, a 2009 study examined strontium isotopes in the sediment record (Young 2009). Strontium is produced by rock weathering, the process that removes CO2 from the air. Consequently, the ratio of strontium isotopes can be used to determine how quickly rock weathering removed CO2 from the atmosphere in the past. Using strontium levels, Young determined that during the late Ordovician, rock weathering was at high levels while volcanic activity, which adds CO2 to the atmosphere, dropped. This led to CO2 levels falling below 3000 parts per million which was low enough to initiate glaciation - the growing of ice sheets.
EDIT: As I previously mentioned that time also led to mass extinctions....
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:08 PM   #36
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Like I've repeatedly said.... all you have to do to find the truth is throw out any climate change articles that involve anything political, monetary, or calls for any action. Ignore all of those, and focus on what's left from sources that aren't wanting to take your money or tax you or convince you to ride a bike. Look at those and tell me what pattern you see. Investigate actual data instead of this politicized bullshit from paid spokespeople who are receiving money for their opinion. You can look directly at the data without any attached opinions on its meaning.
Like "precipitous meltdown" of Arctic ice?
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:08 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
This is actually a true statement. Key words being "Dominant" and "Past 100 years". But that said, there's absolutely clear proof that human emissions have been a contributing cause over the past 40 years. It's proven that humans are contributing. But how much is certainly debatable.
Statements like this would go a long way toward bringing reasonable people from both sides together. Instead, Obama declares that the debate is settled.
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:17 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Like "precipitous meltdown" of Arctic ice?
Yeah... true. Scientific American added some over dramatic flare there. But I don't think it was necessarily political or monetarily motivated...
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:26 PM   #39
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Proven proven proven. It's been proven as fact.
okie dokie if you say so, children of global cooling parents
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:36 PM   #40
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Mass hysteria.
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:40 PM   #41
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Proven proven proven. It's been proven as fact.
okie dokie if you say so, children of global cooling parents
They were wrong with that global cooling stuff. That was SO 70s. Anyway climate change is nice and vague, so they are covered either way
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:46 PM   #42
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IIRC it started in the 50s ??

Their stupid parents or grandparents,would have paint the poles black with fly ash if allowed.
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:53 PM   #43
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Temperature anomalies.




http://mashable.com/2014/01/22/noaa-...imate-reports/

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Old 02-27-2014, 06:53 PM   #44
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If climate change & Co2 were EVER going to hurt the planet. This shit would have happened during the Industrial Revolution. When coal,fire & LIVESTEAM ruled the world

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Old 02-27-2014, 07:01 PM   #45
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Quote:
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They were wrong with that global cooling stuff. That was SO 70s. Anyway climate change is nice and vague, so they are covered either way
Do you believe that human activity is causing a measurable change in atmospheric temperatures?
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