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Old 02-27-2014, 12:44 PM  
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Greenpeace co-founder: No scientific evidence of man-made global warming

There is no scientific evidence that human activity is causing the planet to warm, according to Greenpeace co-founder Patrick Moore, who testified in front of a Senate committee on Tuesday.

Moore argued that the current argument that the burning of fossil fuels is driving global warming over the past century lacks scientific evidence. He added that the Earth is in an unusually cold period and some warming would be a good thing.

“There is no scientific proof that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are the dominant cause of the minor warming of the Earth’s atmosphere over the past 100 years,” according to Moore’s prepared testimony. “Today, we live in an unusually cold period in the history of life on earth and there is no reason to believe that a warmer climate would be anything but beneficial for humans and the majority of other species.”

“It is important to recognize, in the face of dire predictions about a [two degrees Celsius] rise in global average temperature, that humans are a tropical species,” Moore said. “We evolved at the equator in a climate where freezing weather did not exist. The only reasons we can survive these cold climates are fire, clothing, and housing.”

“It could be said that frost and ice are the enemies of life, except for those relatively few species that have evolved to adapt to freezing temperatures during this Pleistocene Ice Age,” he added. “It is ‘extremely likely’ that a warmer temperature than today’s would be far better than a cooler one.”

Indeed, cold weather is more likely to cause death than warm weather. RealClearScience reported that from “1999 to 2010, a total of 4,563 individuals died from heat, but 7,778 individuals died from the cold.” Only in 2006 did heat-related deaths outnumber cold deaths.

In Britain, 24,000 people are projected to die this winter because they cannot afford to pay their energy bills. Roughly 4.5 million British families are facing “fuel poverty.”

“The fact that we had both higher temperatures and an ice age at a time when CO2 emissions were 10 times higher than they are today fundamentally contradicts the certainty that human-caused CO2 emissions are the main cause of global warming,” Moore said.

“When modern life evolved over 500 million years ago, CO2 was more than 10 times higher than today, yet life flourished at this time,” he added. “Then an Ice Age occurred 450 million years ago when CO2 was 10 times higher than today.”

Moore, a Canadian, helped found the environmental activist group Greenpeace in the 1970s. He left the group after they began to take on more radical positions. He has since been a critic of radical environmentalism and heads up the group Ecosense Environmental in Vancouver, Canada.

Moore’s comments come after President Obama declared global warming a “fact” in the State of the Union. His administration has attempted to argue that the recent U.S. cold snap was influenced by a warmer planet.

Climate scientists, however, have been struggling to explain why global surface temperatures have not risen in the last 17 years and why atmospheric temperatures have been flat for the last decade.

“From 1910 to 1940 there was an increase in global average temperature of [0.5 degrees Celsius] over that 30-year period,” Moore said. “Then there was a 30-year ‘pause’ until 1970. This was followed by an increase of [0.57 degrees Celsius] during the 30-year period from 1970 to 2000. Since then there has been no increase, perhaps a slight decrease, in average global temperature.”

“This in itself tends to negate the validity of the computer models, as CO2 emissions have continued to accelerate during this time,” the former environmental activist added. “The increase in temperature between 1910-1940 was virtually identical to the increase between 1970-2000.”



“Yet the IPCC does not attribute the increase from 1910-1940 to ‘human influence.’” Moore continued. “They are clear in their belief that human emissions impact only the increase ‘since the mid-20th century.’ Why does the IPCC believe that a virtually identical increase in temperature after 1950 is caused mainly by ‘human influence,’ when it has no explanation for the nearly identical increase from 1910-1940?”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/25/gr...#ixzz2uYNML96F
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:46 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider View Post
You dipsh@ts need to go back and actually read the IPCC report. It explicitly states that nothing we do at this point will mitigate the projected warming. Of course, there wasn't supposed to be any ice caps by now anyway. The models repeatedly fail due to a fundamental lack of knowledge about how the earth truly works, yet the audacity of "science" insists they now have it under control and know what's going to happen. The real scientists state they do not understand how the earth is being effected, and more study is needed. Idiot politicians like Kerry run around talking about AGW being a weapon of mass destruction, followed up with his buddy Al Gore deliberately spreading mis-information.

Of course all this is a moot point as AGW is religion, and like other zealots, no facts will sway opinion.

You are not stating facts to disprove. You are stating the present evidence in our lives is insufficient to attribute source. Are you stating that temperatures are not rising? Donger, the temperature readings that are combined are in the 95% confidence levels that each machine reading is showing the correct measurements. And combined that leads to higher confidences of the average temperatures changes.

It is also known with absolute confidence that a doubling of CO 2 will raise temperatures 1 degree Celsius. We can determine that in the laboratory. The additional rise in temperatures beyond that directly to CO 2 is less sure. But for example the carrying capacity of water vapor goes up with temperature. That we do know. And with the 1 degree change up you have higher water vapor concentrations which is a Greenhouse Gas and raises temperatures more. (There is also cloud formation, a negative vector if high in the troposphere, positive if low so there is uncertainty to be studied).

And it is true that the existing increase in CO 2 can be shown to be from fossil fuels by the isotope ratios.

As far as the Poles melting, only the North Pole, resting on water, is imperiled in the short run. And both the US Navy and modern studies including satellites shows that the mass of North Pole ice has diminished from the 1950's to the present. The IPCC best guess for ice free N. Pole is still a decade or two out. I guess I am a dingbat but I think we will see N. Pole with times without ice in the next five years as a result of temperature and change in wind currents that push ice flows. Not the simplified notion that ice disappears altogether from the North Arctic especially in winter.

And if you'd look at a climate model, some early ones can run on your PC, you will find how much effort there has been to put known science into these models. They are not statistical models, they are physical models.
And Fish's earlier statement shows how successful they are compared to those models that reject CO 2 as a culprit to rising temperatures.

Kerry merely states the result of AGW is as destructive as Mass Destruction weapons not that it was the intention to do so but a resultant of Industrialization.

You are on your own with Gore.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:51 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
Donger, the temperature readings that are combined are in the 95% confidence levels that each machine reading is showing the correct measurements. And combined that leads to higher confidences of the average temperatures changes.
So, is the what is the margin of error in the average global temperature? How many degrees +/-?
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:04 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
So, is the what is the margin of error in the average global temperature? How many degrees +/-?
How much does the temperature actually vary year by year. Well early data could change from one year to another by .4 a degree C. The last such jump was positive up back in the 1970's. And Temperatures have never gone down to the low since. Actually that jump up to a new high sort of sets the basement for the rest of the temperatures to the present.

The average temperature is like anything averaged. You assume a Gaussian distribution and the average is a derived value whose is strengtened by the large number of entries. And trends over the longer measurement of time are more valid in indicating actual movement.

Now if you are asking how accurate are thermometers used, most are based upon Hall's electrical resistance changes that are quite sensitive to temperature.

And of course the temperatures based upon say Oxygen isotope ratios are quite sensitive to changes (unless you are like Hamm and think the past had different laws of science.) And they are well correlated with present temperature measurements.

You know you can easily have thermometers that measure melting point depression to determine molecular weights and that has been done for a hundred years. So Temperature measurements over the range we are talking about are quite accurate.
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:29 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
How much does the temperature actually vary year by year. Well early data could change from one year to another by .4 a degree C. The last such jump was positive up back in the 1970's. And Temperatures have never gone down to the low since. Actually that jump up to a new high sort of sets the basement for the rest of the temperatures to the present.

The average temperature is like anything averaged. You assume a Gaussian distribution and the average is a derived value whose is strengtened by the large number of entries. And trends over the longer measurement of time are more valid in indicating actual movement.

Now if you are asking how accurate are thermometers used, most are based upon Hall's electrical resistance changes that are quite sensitive to temperature.

And of course the temperatures based upon say Oxygen isotope ratios are quite sensitive to changes (unless you are like Hamm and think the past had different laws of science.) And they are well correlated with present temperature measurements.

You know you can easily have thermometers that measure melting point depression to determine molecular weights and that has been done for a hundred years. So Temperature measurements over the range we are talking about are quite accurate.
How accurate? Unless we are taking temperature data from every single point on Earth, there must be a margin of error, right?

**** it, I'll look it up...

The global land temperature was the highest since 2007 and the fourth highest on record for January, at 2.11°F (1.17°C) above the 20th century average of 37.0°F (2.8°C). The margin of error is ± 0.32°F (± 0.18°C).
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:35 PM   #80
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100 years ago, America produced more Co2 in one day, then we do now in a year.
The railroad industry was 100x what it is today,all powered by coal breathing giants.
Ships back then,tens of thousands sailing the hi seas, all coal breathing vessels.
Millions of factory's dotted the land scape from the Pacific to the Atlantic.All powered by coal burning stationary steam engines
Housing across this country, all heated by coal furnaces.
Electricity. Except for a very few dams. All coal burning, boiler operated turbines producing electricity.
American steel. once again all fired & forged by coal
Why didnt the ice caps melt away by 1930? How did or grand parents survive such a destructive time in Co2 out put.
Bituminous is not the enemy, we built this country on the back of Co2 admissions.
everybody was happy happy happy.
Then you retarded global climate change -ers were born
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:36 PM   #81
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He's no longer with GReenpeace, and while a scientist, he has a degree in ecology, not anything directly related to climate change.

His opinion is not worthless, but neither he nor any other single person really has THE answer to the issue. Hundreds if not thousands of scientists are studying this issue around the world. The opinions of each of them matter more than this fellow.
It doesn't require special study in climatology--which is not that hard to understand. Most scientists in other disciplines can understand climate science. When you have a meteorologist like Richard Lindzen not being on the man-made side and that there's no need for alarm--then that's a man who is really expert on weather since atmospheric physics is really a tough subject. But you don't even need that level of knowledge to understand climate science. Geezas! My daughter's HS science fair experiment disproved an aspect of it using chemistry.
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:42 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
It doesn't require special study in climatology--which is not that hard to understand.

[..]
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:42 PM   #83
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100 years ago, America produced more Co2 in one day, then we do now in a year.
I can't believe that that is even remotely accurate.
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:44 PM   #84
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I can't believe that that is even remotely accurate.
Everything was powdered by steam. & steam was made by burning coal.
houses were heated by coal. & their was no EPA. True we didnt have a billion cars burning gas.
The point is. if the ice caps & all this global nonsense had any validity to it., We would have seen it years ago. Long before Al Gore was ever a thought
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:57 PM   #85
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That's global, but considering up until a few years ago, we were the largest source of CO2...
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:26 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by LINKSteam View Post
100 years ago, America produced more Co2 in one day, then we do now in a year..
LINK LINK LINK LINK LINK

Mother****er I dare you to LINK that shit!
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:47 PM   #87
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LINK LINK LINK LINK LINK

Mother****er I dare you to LINK that shit!
I was referring to coal consumption.
The world has been producing huge enormous amounts of Co2 & soot of all types since 1850. Thats a 164 years. It aint happened yet & it's not going to.
I dont know who Al Gore great grand pappy was a 164 years ago?




But he should of had his wee wee chopped off, so he couldn't reproduce.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:12 PM   #88
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My daughter's HS science fair experiment disproved an aspect of it using chemistry.
I'd love to see the methodology of that ****ing train wreck.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:16 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by LiveSteam View Post
Everything was powdered by steam. & steam was made by burning coal.
houses were heated by coal. & their was no EPA. True we didnt have a billion cars burning gas.
The point is. if the ice caps & all this global nonsense had any validity to it., We would have seen it years ago. Long before Al Gore was ever a thought
There were 1/4 as many people on Earth at that time, and the average person used energy at levels orders of magnitude less than today. Furthermore burning one gallon of gasoline produces 19.64 pounds of CO2.

You are really uninformed.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:27 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
There were 1/4 as many people on Earth at that time, and the average person used energy at levels orders of magnitude less than today. Furthermore burning one gallon of gasoline produces 19.64 pounds of CO2.

You are really uninformed.

Im certainly no chemist but can you tell me how burning 8 pounds of liquid gasoline makes almost 20 pounds of a gas?
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