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Old 02-27-2014, 12:44 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Greenpeace co-founder: No scientific evidence of man-made global warming

There is no scientific evidence that human activity is causing the planet to warm, according to Greenpeace co-founder Patrick Moore, who testified in front of a Senate committee on Tuesday.

Moore argued that the current argument that the burning of fossil fuels is driving global warming over the past century lacks scientific evidence. He added that the Earth is in an unusually cold period and some warming would be a good thing.

“There is no scientific proof that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are the dominant cause of the minor warming of the Earth’s atmosphere over the past 100 years,” according to Moore’s prepared testimony. “Today, we live in an unusually cold period in the history of life on earth and there is no reason to believe that a warmer climate would be anything but beneficial for humans and the majority of other species.”

“It is important to recognize, in the face of dire predictions about a [two degrees Celsius] rise in global average temperature, that humans are a tropical species,” Moore said. “We evolved at the equator in a climate where freezing weather did not exist. The only reasons we can survive these cold climates are fire, clothing, and housing.”

“It could be said that frost and ice are the enemies of life, except for those relatively few species that have evolved to adapt to freezing temperatures during this Pleistocene Ice Age,” he added. “It is ‘extremely likely’ that a warmer temperature than today’s would be far better than a cooler one.”

Indeed, cold weather is more likely to cause death than warm weather. RealClearScience reported that from “1999 to 2010, a total of 4,563 individuals died from heat, but 7,778 individuals died from the cold.” Only in 2006 did heat-related deaths outnumber cold deaths.

In Britain, 24,000 people are projected to die this winter because they cannot afford to pay their energy bills. Roughly 4.5 million British families are facing “fuel poverty.”

“The fact that we had both higher temperatures and an ice age at a time when CO2 emissions were 10 times higher than they are today fundamentally contradicts the certainty that human-caused CO2 emissions are the main cause of global warming,” Moore said.

“When modern life evolved over 500 million years ago, CO2 was more than 10 times higher than today, yet life flourished at this time,” he added. “Then an Ice Age occurred 450 million years ago when CO2 was 10 times higher than today.”

Moore, a Canadian, helped found the environmental activist group Greenpeace in the 1970s. He left the group after they began to take on more radical positions. He has since been a critic of radical environmentalism and heads up the group Ecosense Environmental in Vancouver, Canada.

Moore’s comments come after President Obama declared global warming a “fact” in the State of the Union. His administration has attempted to argue that the recent U.S. cold snap was influenced by a warmer planet.

Climate scientists, however, have been struggling to explain why global surface temperatures have not risen in the last 17 years and why atmospheric temperatures have been flat for the last decade.

“From 1910 to 1940 there was an increase in global average temperature of [0.5 degrees Celsius] over that 30-year period,” Moore said. “Then there was a 30-year ‘pause’ until 1970. This was followed by an increase of [0.57 degrees Celsius] during the 30-year period from 1970 to 2000. Since then there has been no increase, perhaps a slight decrease, in average global temperature.”

“This in itself tends to negate the validity of the computer models, as CO2 emissions have continued to accelerate during this time,” the former environmental activist added. “The increase in temperature between 1910-1940 was virtually identical to the increase between 1970-2000.”



“Yet the IPCC does not attribute the increase from 1910-1940 to ‘human influence.’” Moore continued. “They are clear in their belief that human emissions impact only the increase ‘since the mid-20th century.’ Why does the IPCC believe that a virtually identical increase in temperature after 1950 is caused mainly by ‘human influence,’ when it has no explanation for the nearly identical increase from 1910-1940?”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/25/gr...#ixzz2uYNML96F
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:31 PM   #91
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Im certainly no chemist but can you tell me how burning 8 pounds of liquid gasoline makes almost 20 pounds of a gas?
There is this stuff in the air we breathe called oxygen, that the carbon from the gasoline combines with it to form CO2.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:48 PM   #92
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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2 C8H18 + 25 O2 → 16 CO2 + 18 H2O
The molar mass of C8H18 is 114.26g/mole. For every two moles of gasoline you burn, it combines with 25 moles of O2 (molar mass 32g/mole) to form 16 moles of CO2 (MM=44.01g/mole) and 18 moles of H2O (MM 18.02 g/mole).


So, if I burn gallon of gas, which is about six pounds (2721 grams, which is about 23.8 moles ), it combines with 50 pounds of oxygen, and I end up with about 190 moles of CO2.



(190.4moles*44.01grams per mole)/453 grams per pound= 18.5 pounds per gallon.


That's the chemistry of the reaction. I'm not sure where the EPA gets that extra fraction of a pound (incomplete combustion, different chemical blends).
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:02 PM   #93
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Thanks. That was helpful. Not sure I understand all that with the years since I took Chem 102 but I get some of it.

This is a good explanation...http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...comes_co2.html
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:07 PM   #94
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Thanks. That was helpful. Not sure I understand all that with the years since I took Chem 102 but I get some of it.

How much H20 is produced in burning a gallon of gas?
18 moles per reaction times 11.5 reactions (essentially) times the molar mass of water and divide that result by the number of grams in a pound (453 and change) and you end up with about 8.25 pounds of water.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:10 PM   #95
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18 moles per reaction times 11.5 reactions (essentially) times the molar mass of water and divide that result by the number of grams in a pound (453 and change) and you end up with about 8.25 pounds of water.

There you go, thanks again.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:47 PM   #96
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I'm going to go out on a limb here has say that folks struggling with stoichiometry probably aren't qualified to debate whether anthropogenic climate change is happening or not.
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:14 PM   #97
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I'll listen to the hippie music, wear the tie-dye, be out smarted by all of you.
But nope nope nope! Im not hugging the tree on this one.
Which is a bigger threat?
Climate change,current condition of our power grid
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:07 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by LiveSteam View Post
I'll listen to the hippie music, wear the tie-dye, be out smarted by all of you.
But nope nope nope! Im not hugging the tree on this one.
Which is a bigger threat?
Climate change,current condition of our power grid
The power grid needs attention, and is likely to get it. Consider that electricity first came to Manhattan in 1882 and in less than 50 years the TVA was created to supply electricity to one of the areas of America most lacking in electricity. Likewise we ran cable and internet to most houses in the US in less than 10 years. The problems and solutions related to the power grid reliability are viewed as so easy to reach, that we need a more ambitious goal. People who are researching power grids are trying to figure out how to incorporate green power from distributed generators and to automatically turn off certain appliances in your home when demand is high, while increasing reliability. If the priority were high enough we could fix the greatest vulnerabilities in the power grid inside 20 years. It is priority problem, not a technology problem.

Solving climate change is a much broader problem. You have to address new energy generation technologies (this includes, but is not limited to the smart grid I mentioned above). You probably need to figure out how to economically sequester carbon. You have to build more resilient infrastructure. You potentially have to relocate a billions of people. You potentially have to figure out how to grow food in different conditions with less water availability in regions where food is now grown.

Climate change is a much more difficult problem to solve, and the consequences for ignoring it are potentially worse.
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:12 AM   #99
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It doesn't require special study in climatology--which is not that hard to understand. Most scientists in other disciplines can understand climate science. When you have a meteorologist like Richard Lindzen not being on the man-made side and that there's no need for alarm--then that's a man who is really expert on weather since atmospheric physics is really a tough subject. But you don't even need that level of knowledge to understand climate science. Geezas! My daughter's HS science fair experiment disproved an aspect of it using chemistry.
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:53 AM   #100
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There is this stuff in the air we breathe called oxygen, that the carbon from the gasoline combines with it to form CO2.
Trees and other plants love CO2 because they thrive.
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:53 AM   #101
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I'm going to go out on a limb here has say that folks struggling with stoichiometry probably aren't qualified to debate whether anthropogenic climate change is happening or not.
snob
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:03 AM   #102
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For some reason, this reminded me of BEP.
Awesome! Copying is the sincerest form of flattery!
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:04 AM   #103
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Folks, this is not a school environment. It's a message board. Remember that!
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:21 AM   #104
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The power grid needs attention, and is likely to get it. Consider that electricity first came to Manhattan in 1882 and in less than 50 years the TVA was created to supply electricity to one of the areas of America most lacking in electricity. Likewise we ran cable and internet to most houses in the US in less than 10 years. The problems and solutions related to the power grid reliability are viewed as so easy to reach, that we need a more ambitious goal. People who are researching power grids are trying to figure out how to incorporate green power from distributed generators and to automatically turn off certain appliances in your home when demand is high, while increasing reliability. If the priority were high enough we could fix the greatest vulnerabilities in the power grid inside 20 years. It is priority problem, not a technology problem.

Solving climate change is a much broader problem. You have to address new energy generation technologies (this includes, but is not limited to the smart grid I mentioned above). You probably need to figure out how to economically sequester carbon. You have to build more resilient infrastructure. You potentially have to relocate a billions of people. You potentially have to figure out how to grow food in different conditions with less water availability in regions where food is now grown.

Climate change is a much more difficult problem to solve, and the consequences for ignoring it are potentially worse.
It sounds like you're ready to rush into some pretty expensive programs.
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:32 AM   #105
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It sounds like you're ready to rush into some pretty expensive programs.
Must be like a prepper. Prepare. As we now have been told it is Climate Change, we have to do much more. It could change colder. And again change hotter. Summer clothes, winter clothes? Layers?

In the old days of Global Warming, we had much better focus. But now the possibilities are endless.

A prime example of the complexity of this is a cow. Yes, a cow.

Id postulate most global climate change types are rather firmly in the camp that grass fed cows are a better thing than a grain fed cow. But they have to balance that with the fact that a cow eating grass produces far more methane (Farting as an example) than a grain fed cow.

So what to do?

Then we need to evaluate the impact on the climate change from the growing grass vs the crops used as feed.

Carbon sequestration? Better a pasture or better a wood? or better a corn field?

So. Study we must. And spending to prep is critical.





"Climate change is a much more difficult problem to solve (since we can't seem to define it or its cause), and the consequences for ignoring it are potentially worse(so being busy doing stuff is good even if the rest of the globe does nothing)."
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