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Old 03-01-2014, 10:13 PM  
mikey23545 mikey23545 is offline
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Palin Mocked in 2008 for Warning Putin May Invade Ukraine if Obama Elected

Palin Mocked in 2008 for Warning Putin May Invade Ukraine if Obama Elected


During the 2008 presidential campaign, Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin warned that if Senator Barack Obama were elected president, his "indecision" and "moral equivalence" may encourage Russia's Vladimir Putin to invade Ukraine.

Palin said then:

"After the Russian Army invaded the nation of Georgia, Senator Obama's reaction was one of indecision and moral equivalence, the kind of response that would only encourage Russia's Putin to invade Ukraine next."

For those comments, she was mocked by the high-brow Foreign Policy magazine and its editor Blake Hounshell, who now is one of the editors of Politico magazine.

In light of recent events in Ukraine and concerns that Russia is getting its troops ready to cross the border into the neighboring nation, nobody seems to be laughing at or dismissing those comments now.

Hounshell wrote then that Palin's comments were "strange" and "this is an extremely far-fetched scenario."

"And given how Russia has been able to unsettle Ukraine's pro-Western government without firing a shot, I don't see why violence would be necessary to bring Kiev to heel," Hounshell dismissively wrote.

Palin made her remarks on the stump after Obama's running mate Joe Biden warned Obama supporters to "gird your loins" if Obama is elected because international leaders may test or try to take advantage of him.


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Old 03-02-2014, 02:21 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
The assertion that this wouldn't have happened with a president McCain (because HE'S tough!) is just absurd.

The whole premise of Obama = weak and some other guy = tough is just ridiculous. How are you defining these things? Does using military action mean one is "tough?" Because in the short term, that's really the only thing that is going to have any visible results.

I never considered you part of that crowd, but you sound like one of the Putin-lovers so impressed with the way he operates vs Obama (and ignoring the systems in which they operate).
No I personally think McCain would talk much tougher and even take some clear direct actions like Bush did... which had very little effect. My position is that both sides are useless because neither wants to take drastic action to attack the real problem. BUT I am saying that Palin (who I can't stand) deserves credit on this one... belittling that just makes you look small.
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Old 03-02-2014, 02:21 PM   #47
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One could argue the Lehman collapse killed McCain since they were up slightly in polls before that but never recovered.
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Old 03-02-2014, 02:35 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
That's really what you got out of that--that I'm blaming Bush? (although that at least would make more sense than blaming pre-president Obama)

I'm not saying it's anyone's fault. I'm saying that Palin's statement about Obama's actions while not president was ****ing stupid then and it is even more stupid now to look back on it as if she said something intelligent.

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Old 03-02-2014, 03:17 PM   #49
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No I personally think McCain would talk much tougher and even take some clear direct actions like Bush did... which had very little effect. My position is that both sides are useless because neither wants to take drastic action to attack the real problem. BUT I am saying that Palin (who I can't stand) deserves credit on this one... belittling that just makes you look small.
And this just makes you look ****ing stupid. She predicted Obama's weakness would lead to this but McCain would talk tougher with little effect. FFS...
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:23 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
No I personally think McCain would talk much tougher and even take some clear direct actions like Bush did... which had very little effect. My position is that both sides are useless because neither wants to take drastic action to attack the real problem. BUT I am saying that Palin (who I can't stand) deserves credit on this one... belittling that just makes you look small.
The real problem is US globalists, including Soros, instigating in the Ukraine to create division and desire to break away from Russia's orbits. So more instigation, or more of the same, does not attack the real problem.
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:23 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
And this just makes you look ****ing stupid. She predicted Obama's weakness would lead to this but McCain would talk tougher with little effect. FFS...
And you fail yet again at getting the point. My point is that she was correct about Obama's weak foreign policy leadership giving the Russians the idea that they could get away with this... but I ALSO feel that McCain's much "tougher" rhetoric wouldn't be much more effective. As I have consistently stated, I don't think EITHER side has the stomach for TRULY standing up to Russia. (and before the Ron Paul whackos can jump in, I am not saying you need to start WWIII to be effective)

So she was correct in her assessment of Obama... where she fails is thinking that McCain would have been a great deal better. (I do think he would be better in this regard but only marginally so)

EDIT: Since you brought up Bush earlier.. I felt he dropped the ball on Georgia by being a complete puss (he was a lame duck by then but still)... just like I blame Eisenhower for being a complete puss on Hungary in 1956. This isn't a partisan issue for me. As a matter of fact my top three foreign policy presidents of the 20th century are Truman, Kennedy and Clinton(tied with Reagan actually).

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Old 03-02-2014, 03:26 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
The real problem is US globalists, including Soros, instigating in the Ukraine to create division and desire to break away from Russia's orbits. So more instigation, or more of the same, does not attack the real problem.
You're right, it's FAR better for the Ukrainian people to become serfs to the Russian plutocrats. For ****'s sake, you really would love the world to go back to feudalism.
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:28 PM   #53
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New Ukraine Navy Chief Defects to Crimea
Republic of Crimea Announces Creation of Its Own Navy

Looks like the solution may end up being a split Ukraine, as secessionist sentiment builds with a planned referendum to split from the Ukraine in late March.

Jason Ditz on defection and referendum
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:30 PM   #54
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You're right, it's FAR better for the Ukrainian people to become serfs to the Russian plutocrats. For ****'s sake, you really would love the world to go back to feudalism.
That's not an argument. It also has ZERO to do with me wanting feudalism. Especially, when we're increasing ruled by the same kind of feudalists.
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:31 PM   #55
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That is probably the best possible and most likely solution. Crimea was given to the Ukraine in the 60s and the Soviets already eliminated most of the population in the 40s that would possibly side against Russia in the Tatars, Greeks, Armenians, and Bulgarians.

The only question afterwards is what happens to the 40% of the population that is not Russian. Do they stay? Do they leave for the Ukraine or other countries? Do they revolt seeing this as setting up another round of ethnic cleansing?
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:40 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
And you fail yet again at getting the point. My point is that she was correct about Obama's weak foreign policy leadership giving the Russians the idea that they could get away with this... but I ALSO feel that McCain's much "tougher" rhetoric wouldn't be much more effective. As I have consistently stated, I don't think EITHER side has the stomach for TRULY standing up to Russia. (and before the Ron Paul whackos can jump in, I am not saying you need to start WWIII to be effective)

So she was correct in her assessment of Obama... where she fails is thinking that McCain would have been a great deal better. (I do think he would be better in this regard but only marginally so)
So, with a different president, this would not have happened--that's what you're saying correct?

This whole notion of a "tough" president with the ability to make other leaders shake in their boots is just childish. I tend to think you're smarter than that but you are feeding into the fantasies of those who aren't and believe the world is a comic book. This image of toughness seems to come from willingness to engage in war. I'm no liberal pacifist, but I don't consider sending someone else's kid to war = toughness. Nor is it generally all that productive.

Even your proposed "financial war" would be of very, very limited success at best--the biggest part being that it really can only be done after the fact and would not have prevented the current events from happening. The threat of it also wouldn't have done anything to stop it.

And doing it now would be very difficult to accomplish, and likely have little effect. There's little the US could do on its own--it would take international cooperation and most countries aren't going to be willing to poke the bear like that.

In the end, I realize this is simply something to pounce on Obama about. There will be a big circle jerk about it as if it is unprecedented that something bad happened in the world and wasn't solved within 24 hours by the US president.
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:04 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
That is probably the best possible and most likely solution. Crimea was given to the Ukraine in the 60s and the Soviets already eliminated most of the population in the 40s that would possibly side against Russia in the Tatars, Greeks, Armenians, and Bulgarians.

The only question afterwards is what happens to the 40% of the population that is not Russian. Do they stay? Do they leave for the Ukraine or other countries? Do they revolt seeing this as setting up another round of ethnic cleansing?
May I ask which solution you're referring to?
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:05 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
So, with a different president, this would not have happened--that's what you're saying correct?

This whole notion of a "tough" president with the ability to make other leaders shake in their boots is just childish. I tend to think you're smarter than that but you are feeding into the fantasies of those who aren't and believe the world is a comic book. This image of toughness seems to come from willingness to engage in war. I'm no liberal pacifist, but I don't consider sending someone else's kid to war = toughness. Nor is it generally all that productive.

Even your proposed "financial war" would be of very, very limited success at best--the biggest part being that it really can only be done after the fact and would not have prevented the current events from happening. The threat of it also wouldn't have done anything to stop it.

And doing it now would be very difficult to accomplish, and likely have little effect. There's little the US could do on its own--it would take international cooperation and most countries aren't going to be willing to poke the bear like that.

In the end, I realize this is simply something to pounce on Obama about. There will be a big circle jerk about it as if it is unprecedented that something bad happened in the world and wasn't solved within 24 hours by the US president.
Yes I do think that a "different" president would be more effective. I am not however saying that McCain or Bush or Romney would be much of a different president given this situation although that is pure speculation on my part.

Speaking of pure speculation, you claim that attacking the Russian plutocracy's finances would have no effect yet you give no valid reason why. Do you think Putin's power level has passed beyond the need for their allegiance? (This is actually possible) Why would it be so staggeringly difficult to achieve? The US govt freezes criminal assets ALL THE TIME. We strong arm other countries into doing it for us ALL THE TIME. It really isn't terribly difficult at all for a President with the resolve to make that decision.

Let's assume Putin still gives a damn what the billionaires of Russia are concerned with... do you really think a massive freeze on their international assets contingent upon a withdrawal from Crimea wouldn't at least cause a great deal of turmoil back home for him?
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:29 PM   #59
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Yes I do think that a "different" president would be more effective. I am not however saying that McCain or Bush or Romney would be much of a different president given this situation although that is pure speculation on my part.

Speaking of pure speculation, you claim that attacking the Russian plutocracy's finances would have no effect yet you give no valid reason why. Do you think Putin's power level has passed beyond the need for their allegiance? (This is actually possible) Why would it be so staggeringly difficult to achieve? The US govt freezes criminal assets ALL THE TIME. We strong arm other countries into doing it for us ALL THE TIME. It really isn't terribly difficult at all for a President with the resolve to make that decision.

Let's assume Putin still gives a damn what the billionaires of Russia are concerned with... do you really think a massive freeze on their international assets contingent upon a withdrawal from Crimea wouldn't at least cause a great deal of turmoil back home for him?
Putin has consolidated power in a manner that freezing their assets would not affect him in the least. Aside from that, freezing their assets would be incredibly difficult to actually accomplish as they don't really need the US or Europe's financial system for their assets.

Putin will not withdraw from Crimea. That's his bargaining chip with Europe. If they disagree with him then he will choke off the grain that flows through there into Europe. Holding it allows him to exert control over the gas flows that don't go through Crimea but still travel through the Ukraine.

Putin is risking an all out war with this move. The UK and Europe will be none to happy with having their food supply threatened.

Nobody outside of Russia could have prevented this either. Putin made his first move in the Ukraine and it failed (flipping the president from EU support to Russian support). This was his plan B.
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:32 PM   #60
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What exactly is "talking tough" going to do? Was McCain going to risk a shooting war with Russia over the Crimea or Ukraine? Putin was going to cower because McCain talked to him sternly?

The same people who bitched at Obama for coordinating airstrikes against Libya, for expanding a program of drone warfare and killing hundreds of people, for staying in Afghanistan, are now bitching that he isn't apparently tough enough in foreign policy.

Of course, logical consistency doesn't matter when the entire purpose of this subforum is a right wing circle jerk, but it's completely ****ing moronic nonetheless.
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