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Old 03-16-2014, 04:02 PM  
planetdoc planetdoc is offline
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NSA does facebook man in the middle attacks to implant malware

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2...denial-denial/

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Originally Posted by article
the NSA secretly pretended to be a Facebook server in order to covertly infect targets with malware “implants” used for surveillance.

This revelation apparently infuriated Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg so much that he got on the phone to President Barack Obama to complain about it. “I’ve been so confused and frustrated by the repeated reports of the behavior of the US government,” Zuckerberg wrote in a blog post Thursday. “When our engineers work tirelessly to improve security, we imagine we’re protecting you against criminals, not our own government.”

That wasn’t all. Wired ran a piece saying that the NSA’s widespread use of its malware tools “acts as implicit permission to others, both nation-state and criminal.” Slate noted that the NSA’s hacking platform appears to be “becoming a bit more like the un-targeted dragnets everyone has been so upset about.” Meanwhile, Ars Technica wrote that the surveillance technology we exposed “poses a risk to the entire Internet.”


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Originally Posted by article
the NSA is working to “aggressively scale” its computer hacking missions and has built a system called TURBINE that it explicitly states will “allow the current implant network to scale to large size (millions of implants).”
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:15 PM   #16
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They are holding training exercises to shoot down unarmed Americans who are doing nothing more than stumbling out of buildings, or maybe go back 6 months or so to the paper targets they were training on that depicted little kids and old women.

Its ****ED.

Its outrageous and I'd love to see someone explain it away... zombies, are you KIDDING me?
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
secondly, I would need details. Is the CIA agent posing as an Exxon-Mobile employee to scam/defraud a 3rd party or Exxon-Mobile? Are they doing this for terrorism reasons, economic espionage, for the benefit of another company, or something else? Who is harmed/benefited, and how?
I'm not sure why you're suddenly focused on these types of details since you've shown no interest in them so far in this NSA/Facebook situation, but fine, here you go.

They're doing it to gather information about a Saudi Arabian businessman who they believe is funding AQAP and other terror organizations.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:34 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
I disagree that DISCLOSURE of this info hurts. Instead I believe that DOING this type of activity hurts US companies.

Generally speaking I dont think knowledge/info is ever wrong. I think intentions or actions can be wrong. Philosophically speaking, I would summarize that as saying I have no problem with someone having the "knowledge of good or evil", but I have a problem with those who "choose evil."
OK, that's absurd. Aside from maybe a relatively minor traffic decrease, disclosure is the only way Facebook can be hurt here.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:37 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Pat, they're far exceeding their charter.

As for Snowden, did Americans not have a right to know that their Constitution was being trampled on? You can question his personal motives, but I am personally pleased that I was atleast made aware of their depredations.

You've heard the axiom about "absolute power"... don't you think theres a truth in that? How much intrusion are the American people supposed to put up with in the name of "terrorism"... and the potential terrorist list now includes returning from wars veterans and Ron Paul supporters and mainstream Christian associations, among others.

Pat, these guys are trying to stifle any and all debate and dissension... it isn't right, its un-American.
I reject your premises.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:43 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
They're doing it to gather information about a Saudi Arabian businessman who they believe is funding AQAP and other terror organizations.
if that is the scenario, than impersonating an Exon-Mobile employee would not be warranted. Funding requires "following the money." That would also be under the scope of the Treasury department.

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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
OK, that's absurd. Aside from maybe a relatively minor traffic decrease, disclosure is the only way Facebook can be hurt here.
I now have read and acknowledged your position on the matter. Mine has already been disclosed earlier in this thread. Instead of repeating our same positions 'ad nauseam' on this 1 specific point, I suggest we agree to disagree.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:43 PM   #21
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Is the NSA out of control or not?

Even the CIA, who are strictly tasked, atleast by mandate and traditionally, with affairs outside of the US, are now interrogating US citizens within our borders, who are now just an armed wing of the NSA.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:48 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
if that is the scenario, than impersonating an Exon-Mobile employee would not be warranted. Funding requires "following the money." That would also be under the scope of the Treasury department.
Wow. Thank goodness we don't operate under the planetdoc rules.

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Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
I now have read and acknowledged your position on the matter. Mine has already been disclosed earlier in this thread. Instead of repeating our same positions 'ad nauseam' on this 1 specific point, I suggest we agree to disagree.
Yep, sounds good to me.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:51 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Is the NSA out of control or not?

Even the CIA, who are strictly tasked, atleast by mandate and traditionally, with affairs outside of the US, are now interrogating US citizens within our borders, who are now just an armed wing of the NSA.
What?

I don't believe they're out of control, but I don't really have the ability to judge that. I expect Congress to keep them under control without neutering them or creating unnecessary obstacles for them in response to conspiratorial media reports or in order to satisfy paranoid citizens. I have confidence in the members of the intel committees and the FISA court to keep them in check.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:58 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I reject your premises.
That line you toe will keep coming back on you, before long you'll be backed into a corner with all of the other patriotic Americans.

Returning vets? potential terrorists.

Paul supporters? potential terrorists.

2nd Ammendment advocates? potential terrorists.

Mainstream Christian organizations? potential terrorists.

US local, county and state troopers who swear to uphold the Constitution? potential terrorists.

You, me, anyone else who disagrees with our current government?... you guessed it, potential terrorists.

Its out of CONTROL, Pat... I respect you as a well read mind, really I do and I lean right more than ever and agree with you more than ever these days... but at some point you need to open your eyes to what these guys are doing.

Why are they buying billions of hollowpoint rounds, more than even the Army and Corps needed for TWO wars going past ten years... why are they shooting at ZOMBIES? good grief I want to laugh at the absurdity of it all, but behind that absurdity is something quite unfunny.

Zombies, seriously?... they paid damn good money to set that up, makeup artists, paid actors, training blanks, clock pay for the agents... all to do what? read between the lines Pat, our government is preparing for something unthinkable.

We need guys like you to see it and speak out, NOT guffaw at the information that's easy for anyone to see.
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:22 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Wow. Thank goodness we don't operate under the planetdoc rules.
Treasury department is best suited to look for funding

Quote:
Originally Posted by treasury department
, the U.S. Treasury Department issues subpoenas to the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) – a Belgium-based company with U.S. offices that operates a worldwide messaging system used to transmit financial transaction information – seeking information on suspected international terrorists or their networks. Under the terms of the subpoenas, the U.S. Government may only review information as part of specific terrorism investigations.
so the treasury department gets records. That is the way you can find a person's assets and follow the money.....not by impersonating a company (such as Exon-Mobile). Also, notice the clear rules and limits in place. This isnt a fishing expedition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tresury department
Based on information that identifies an individual or entity, the U.S. Government is able to conduct targeted searches against the limited subset of records provided by SWIFT in order to trace financial transactions related to suspected terrorist activity.
notice once again, the limited scope. In your case, if a saudi buisnessman is identified then they conduct a targeted search in regards to that suspect. The CIA, impersonating Exon-Mbile, would not be limited to interactions to that 1 particular customer. As part of the ruse, their actions may have affects on individuals who have no part in a terror orginization or related to a terror investigation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by treasury departmen
The TFTP is firmly rooted in sound legal authority, based on statutory mandates and Executive Orders – including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) and the United Nations Participation Act (UNPA).
they are publicly clear where their authorization comes from.

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Originally Posted by treasury department
The TFTP does not involve data mining. In fact, most people would never have information that would be included in the SWIFT data seen by counter-terrorism analysts under the TFTP. We work to ensure the appropriate and limited use of the information while maintaining respect for individual privacy.
once again. limited scope. They also have plans for Hawala and Alternative Remittance Systems. See, the treasury department is geared to "follow the money." They dont need to waste time on "cloak and dagger" bullshit.

Really, under your scenario, a government agency can easily subpoena Exon and find out the relationship they have with the Saudi buisnessman. They can get access to the records. On the otherend, they can find out (from banks) where this buisnessman keeps his money and where he spends it, etc. Impersonating an Exon employee is neither warranted or necessary.

An example of this would be for LEO to use a Stingray device to impersonate a verizon tower in order to get cell information about a suspect instead of getting a warrant for the records directly from Verizon. A warrant would be limited in scope to the records of the suspect, while Stingray potentially impacts all Verizon customers within range of the device as well as makes Verizon customers lose faith in the service of the Verizon company.
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:34 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
Treasury department is best suited to look for funding



so the treasury department gets records. That is the way you can find a person's assets and follow the money.....not by impersonating a company (such as Exon-Mobile). Also, notice the clear rules and limits in place. This isnt a fishing expedition.



notice once again, the limited scope. In your case, if a saudi buisnessman is identified then they conduct a targeted search in regards to that suspect. The CIA, impersonating Exon-Mbile, would not be limited to interactions to that 1 particular customer. As part of the ruse, their actions may have affects on individuals who have no part in a terror orginization or related to a terror investigation.



they are publicly clear where their authorization comes from.



once again. limited scope. They also have plans for Hawala and Alternative Remittance Systems. See, the treasury department is geared to "follow the money." They dont need to waste time on "cloak and dagger" bullshit.

Really, under your scenario, a government agency can easily subpoena Exon and find out the relationship they have with the Saudi buisnessman. They can get access to the records. On the otherend, they can find out (from banks) where this buisnessman keeps his money and where he spends it, etc. Impersonating an Exon employee is neither warranted or necessary.

An example of this would be for LEO to use a Stingray device to impersonate a verizon tower in order to get cell information about a suspect instead of getting a warrant for the records directly from Verizon. A warrant would be limited in scope to the records of the suspect, while Stingray potentially impacts all Verizon customers within range of the device as well as makes Verizon customers lose faith in the service of the Verizon company.
I didn't give enough of a scenario to draw all of these conclusions. It's all completely beside the point anyway.
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:51 PM   #27
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What?

I don't believe they're out of control, but I don't really have the ability to judge that. I expect Congress to keep them under control without neutering them or creating unnecessary obstacles for them in response to conspiratorial media reports or in order to satisfy paranoid citizens. I have confidence in the members of the intel committees and the FISA court to keep them in check.
Congress? they cant even pass a decent budget, besides that they are largely bought and paid for... its no longer about whats best for America for so many of them, its whats best for that particular Congressman's long term re-election prospects.

Its BROKEN, its all broken Pat... FISA courts appointed by who? I can set up a court of Chiefs fans right now who will NEVER have a sane word to say about Denver... is that ok?

That may seem like a trivial comparison but its true... WHO is watching the watchers besides the same old, tired bunch of insiders who long ago sold their souls?
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Old 03-16-2014, 09:59 PM   #28
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Even the uber liberal Huff Post isn't afraid to call him on indefinite detentions and assassinations of American citizens...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2402601.html

"National Security" has become so overwhelming, so all encompassing that its become hard to differentiate the bad guys from the good guys... these guys are American?

Please, the MIC is in TOTAL control right now and when things finally come to a head the ONLY thing we can hope for is patriotic military units defecting... think this is the Colonists vs the Brits again? LOL, think again, our arms were basically identical with some discrepancies in numbers.

These days? hahahaaa, a civilian militia against US forces ... it would be a farce... thermal seeking drones, satellites, missiles, full auto weapons... America might fight back for a while but it would be a losing proposition no doubt.

Our ONLY hope is the defection of military units, something the establishment has tried to get under control with the canning of some 100+ Generals... without these patriots America WILL fall, the original patriots fought musket to musket, cannon to cannon.

Not semi auto AR15 and molotove cocktails to drones and satellites... the footing is extremely unequal, we wont stand a chance without the mutiny of divisions.

Do I sound like a conspiracy theorist? yep and I don't give a damn... America is on the brink, without patriots ready for anything we are doomed.
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Old 03-16-2014, 11:20 PM   #29
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I obviously went beyond my mandate of average citizen, but where do those actions, not esoteric fudgeable facts go, what do they mean?

Is there ANY action that isn't covered by a federal agency?... why back the question mark?

Pat, your government is involved in some of the most extreme government coverups in this world... "I'm too smart"... no you're not, not all of the American power structure agrees with you... your personal politics and wishes are "wishes" at best.

Anyway whatever, drink water and live...

I fully expect a harsh reply from someone who cannot for the LIFE of them accept that surfers and accountants alone can.

America WANTS you to get rich, risk your life hell ya adventure bitches... but lets talk about taxes, once you've settled down... ok?

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Old 03-17-2014, 12:21 AM   #30
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My last few posts were considered so stupid that nary a reply was drawn, this nation is screwed... so insane, so outside the bounds of "rational thought" was the subject that not even an argument or conversation was had.

Whatever, don't say I didn't tell you so... God Bless America and the Constitution of the USA, everything else can go join Cuba barely clawing its way out of the woods right now, better yet let the UN cover their asses with the last fig leaf, we all know what staunch defenders of freedom THEY are.
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