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Old 03-30-2014, 08:03 AM  
BigRichard BigRichard is offline
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Texas family fights for euthanasia laws after daughter's death

So I am sure it has been discussed before but what is everyone's opinion on laws like this?

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Corpus Christi, Texas (KTVT) A Texas family is fighting to make euthanasia of terminal patients legal in the state. They don't want other families to go through the pain that they have endured.

At 19-months-old, Natalie Newton was a busy, happy toddler. until September, when those busy little feet took her into the family's backyard pool near Corpus Christi. Natty, as the family likes to call her, was revived.

"It was just horrible. blind and deaf and can't move can you imagine?" Her dad said.

After more than an hour without oxygen, doctors determined that she would ultimately not survive.

"You think that dreadful thought: We can't let her live like this, and you can't believe you just thought that," said her dad.

The hospital's ethics committee agreed. The question then became: How, exactly, would natty die?

"They're saying, ok, well, the nutrition and the hydration. 'Well, isn't that starving her to death?'" The father asked them.

Her grandfather, Bradley Newton, says withholding 'nutrition' as it's nicely put was the only option that Texas law allowed.

Over eight and a half long, awful, agonizing days, Natty was starved.

"That's just the most cruel, inhumane thing. We euthanize dogs for humanity reasons, we euthanize serial killers but, a 21-month-old baby has to starve for almost 9 days?" Questions the dad.

Newton says his family has been traumatized by the process and is traveling the state sharing her story in the hope of forcing change, for Natty's sake.



http://www.ketknbc.com/news/texas-fa...aws-after-daug


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Here is a link to a CNN video on it as well. This video is a little graphic due to some of the photos they show in it. You have been warned.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...ight.ktvt.html
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:42 AM   #16
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
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Originally Posted by Katipan View Post
I understand it to be the other way.

https://www.cpsc.gov/en/Newsroom/New...e-year-period/

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreation...factsheet.html

It's really not a question of if your kid is going to get away from you. It's a matter of when. And how trained are they. I could swim before I could walk. Now I could swing a cat and hit a bunch of Iowans that have never learned.
Is that the noise they make when you hit them with the cat?
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:14 PM   #17
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Is that the noise they make when you hit them with the cat?
You know I miss the days when the oddest thing people do with their animals is put them in Gucci bags. Swear to God I've helped load a miniature pony into the back of an SUV. I'd get strung up if I ever actually swung a cat.
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:42 PM   #18
Nirvana58 Nirvana58 is offline
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Whether the parents were idiots or not in letting this happen to their child isn't the point. The laws surrounding letting people die are ridiculous. We had to go through this same thing when my grandpa passed. He was past the point of no return and the doctors basically said it was time to let him go. So they pulled him off his food and breathing machines. We had to watch him for 6 days as he would wake up grasping for air thrashing around until he was too weak from no water or food that he finally passed away. The look on his face during that is something I will never forget. Their are major things wrong with the laws in our country.
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:49 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Nirvana58 View Post
Whether the parents were idiots or not in letting this happen to their child isn't the point. The laws surrounding letting people die are ridiculous. We had to go through this same thing when my grandpa passed. He was past the point of no return and the doctors basically said it was time to let him go. So they pulled him off his food and breathing machines. We had to watch him for 6 days as he would wake up grasping for air thrashing around until he was too weak from no water or food that he finally passed away. The look on his face during that is something I will never forget. Their are major things wrong with the laws in our country.

This times eleventy billion. That is one seriously f'ed up way to do things.
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:22 PM   #20
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I believe there is only a natural right to a natural birth and death. So I don't support the active taking of life by removing food and water aka killing them or euthanasia. That trend could lead to other, much worse abuses of human life. We must feed our sick and also our dying. If you're talking prolonging their life with medical treatment when they're going to die anyway is another matter. The two concepts need to be kept and treated separately. One is a natural death the other is intentional neglect to commit homicide.
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:26 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I believe there is only a natural right to a natural birth and death. So I don't support the active taking of life by removing food and water aka killing them or euthanasia. That trend could lead to other, much worse abuses of human life. We must feed our sick and also our dying. If you're talking prolonging their life with medical treatment when they're going to die anyway is another matter. The two concepts need to be kept and treated separately. One is a natural death the other is intentional neglect to commit homicide.
So you are basically stating the government should be involved with our healthcare?
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:27 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Nirvana58 View Post
He was past the point of no return and the doctors basically said it was time to let him go. So they pulled him off his food and breathing machines....Their are major things wrong with the laws in our country.
Why was he on breathing machines in the first place? If this is a concern of you and your family, have you all set up DNR orders for yourself or given someone a medical power of attorney?

For those who want to "die in peace", than dont have medical providers involved in the first place. This doesnt require any extra laws but some foresight. Take control of your own medical care by setting this up instead of making your family or doctor make the difficult decision on when and how to "pull the plug."
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:30 PM   #23
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The point is that "pulling the plug" may mean you die after days/weeks from starvation or dehydration.

And that is ****ing retarded, inhumane and frankly barbaric.
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:35 PM   #24
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Let me give a specific, real world example. My father spent the last four or so years of his life with alzheimers. His specific version of it meant that he could not speak or communicate in any way whatsoever, nor was he capable of caring for himself at all. Picture someone who can walk, but otherwise might as well be catatonic. No interaction whatsoever. No sign that he even recognized me as a family member, as compared to anyone else in his life.

Forget having him live for years in that state (pathetic as THAT is), the real kicker came later when he eventually forgot how to swallow. He would put food in his mouth, chew it, then store it in his cheeks. And then, sometimes swallow, sometimes spit it out, and sometimes leave it there indefinitely. Sometimes the caretakers had to dig it out of his mouth for fear he'd choke on it.

The doctors gave me the choices -- either a tube to feed him nutrition directly to his stomache, or let him starve to death.

That's it. No other options. I did have a health care proxy. I did have a DNR on file. What good were they? None.

Complete insanity. We have better policies for our PETS than for our PEOPLE.
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:40 PM   #25
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The point is that "pulling the plug" may mean you die after days/weeks from starvation or dehydration.

And that is ****ing retarded, inhumane and frankly barbaric.
There are a lot of ethical concerns regarding "right to death." Terry schiavo is a good case in which 1 familial group wanted her alive while another familial group wanted her dead.

Laws are not going to make this any easier to deal with. The only thing that will is making your wishes known prior to being in such a situation.

As for minors or those who have given a medical power of attorney, withholding nutrition and hydration does not have to be "retarded, inhumane, or barbaric" with proper palliative support.

It might not be "instant" like maybe some family members might prefer, but it removes a medical provider from having to actively kill someone versus withholding care that would continue life. That is an important distinction.

Euthanasia is going to open up logistical problems because, IMO, health care providers that will be willing to participate will be few and far between. That might mean only 1 such provider in an entire state. Euthanasia is not some magical solution that you all make it out to be.
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:46 PM   #26
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Let me give a specific, real world example. My father spent the last four or so years of his life with alzheimers. His specific version of it meant that he could not speak or communicate in any way whatsoever, nor was he capable of caring for himself at all. Picture someone who can walk, but otherwise might as well be catatonic. No interaction whatsoever. No sign that he even recognized me as a family member, as compared to anyone else in his life.

Forget having him live for years in that state (pathetic as THAT is), the real kicker came later when he eventually forgot how to swallow. He would put food in his mouth, chew it, then store it in his cheeks. And then, sometimes swallow, sometimes spit it out, and sometimes leave it there indefinitely. Sometimes the caretakers had to dig it out of his mouth for fear he'd choke on it.

The doctors gave me the choices -- either a tube to feed him nutrition directly to his stomache, or let him starve to death.

That's it. No other options. I did have a health care proxy. I did have a DNR on file. What good were they? None.

Complete insanity. We have better policies for our PETS than for our PEOPLE.
1. Did your father at any time while he was of sound mind (such as early stage Alzehiemer's diseae) know that he had dementia?

2. Did your father make clear what his medical wishes were?

Patients with difficulty swallowing are at high aspiration risk. This also can lead to pneumonia...both of which have high mortality in that patient population.

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Sometimes the caretakers had to dig it out of his mouth for fear he'd choke on it
at this point he probably should have been on liquid nutrition. Although the caretakers intentions were good, this type of care is something you want to be pro-active to avoid.

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The doctors gave me the choices -- either a tube to feed him nutrition directly to his stomache, or let him starve to death.
what options would you want them to give you? Would you have been willing to take his life? Did you expect a health care provider to do that for you?
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:06 PM   #27
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Im still having a bit of trouble with this. What was wrong with the child aside from being Blind and deaf?
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:22 PM   #28
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Im still having a bit of trouble with this. What was wrong with the child aside from being Blind and deaf?
I think she was basically like Terry Shiavo (sp?) was. Maybe breathing and heartbeating but for the most part not there. I could be wrong though.
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:23 PM   #29
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Why was he on breathing machines in the first place? If this is a concern of you and your family, have you all set up DNR orders for yourself or given someone a medical power of attorney?

For those who want to "die in peace", than dont have medical providers involved in the first place. This doesnt require any extra laws but some foresight. Take control of your own medical care by setting this up instead of making your family or doctor make the difficult decision on when and how to "pull the plug."
My grandpa was being assisted with his breathing for years before he went in the hospital that final time and was completely unresponsive. This was not something new. He had been slowly dieing for years and had more versions of cancer than I can name. There was a lot more efficient way in my opinion to let him go in peace. They could of upped his morphine until he slipped off. Sounds bad but it would have been a lot more quick and painless way instead of starving him of food, water, and oxygen.
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:49 PM   #30
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My grandpa was being assisted with his breathing for years before he went in the hospital that final time and was completely unresponsive.
probably should have had a DNR.

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There was a lot more efficient way in my opinion to let him go in peace. They could of upped his morphine until he slipped off. Sounds bad but it would have been a lot more quick and painless way instead of starving him of food, water, and oxygen.
agree. sorry for your loss.
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