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Old 03-30-2014, 09:03 AM  
BigRichard BigRichard is offline
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Texas family fights for euthanasia laws after daughter's death

So I am sure it has been discussed before but what is everyone's opinion on laws like this?

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Corpus Christi, Texas (KTVT) — A Texas family is fighting to make euthanasia of terminal patients legal in the state. They don't want other families to go through the pain that they have endured.

At 19-months-old, Natalie Newton was a busy, happy toddler. until September, when those busy little feet took her into the family's backyard pool near Corpus Christi. Natty, as the family likes to call her, was revived.

"It was just horrible. blind and deaf and can't move can you imagine?" Her dad said.

After more than an hour without oxygen, doctors determined that she would ultimately not survive.

"You think that dreadful thought: We can't let her live like this, and you can't believe you just thought that," said her dad.

The hospital's ethics committee agreed. The question then became: How, exactly, would natty die?

"They're saying, ok, well, the nutrition and the hydration. 'Well, isn't that starving her to death?'" The father asked them.

Her grandfather, Bradley Newton, says withholding 'nutrition' as it's nicely put was the only option that Texas law allowed.

Over eight and a half long, awful, agonizing days, Natty was starved.

"That's just the most cruel, inhumane thing. We euthanize dogs for humanity reasons, we euthanize serial killers but, a 21-month-old baby has to starve for almost 9 days?" Questions the dad.

Newton says his family has been traumatized by the process and is traveling the state sharing her story in the hope of forcing change, for Natty's sake.



http://www.ketknbc.com/news/texas-fa...aws-after-daug


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Here is a link to a CNN video on it as well. This video is a little graphic due to some of the photos they show in it. You have been warned.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...ight.ktvt.html
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:04 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post

[irrelevant stuff deleted]

what options would you want them to give you? Would you have been willing to take his life? Did you expect a health care provider to do that for you?
Yes and yes. And if I were in the same situation I'd like the same, thankyouverymuch.
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:50 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Yes and yes.
If you were willing to take his life, than what stopped you?

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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
And if I were in the same situation I'd like the same, thankyouverymuch.
hope you have written those wishes down and made it clear to your loved ones. Its too late after the fact.
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Old 03-31-2014, 05:38 PM   #33
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Chief Gump View Post
So you are basically stating the government should be involved with our healthcare?
I see you can't read.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:40 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I believe there is only a natural right to a natural birth and death. So I don't support the active taking of life by removing food and water aka killing them or euthanasia. That trend could lead to other, much worse abuses of human life. We must feed our sick and also our dying. If you're talking prolonging their life with medical treatment when they're going to die anyway is another matter. The two concepts need to be kept and treated separately. One is a natural death the other is intentional neglect to commit homicide.

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Originally Posted by Chief Gump View Post
So you are basically stating the government should be involved with our healthcare?
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I see you can't read.
How do you propose do make this happen?
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:48 PM   #35
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Make what happen? I stated my opinion only. You don't have to agree.
I don't believe in allowing the purposeful taking of any human life by anyone; that is the govt's first job--to protect human life.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:49 PM   #36
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Oh wait, you were channeling Donger again, right?
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:55 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Make what happen? I stated my opinion only. You don't have to agree.
I don't believe in allowing the purposeful taking of any human life by anyone; that is the govt's first job--to protect human life.
I'm asking you, since you believe that something must be done and that something needs to be done, how you propose to do that.

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Oh wait, you were channeling Donger again, right?
Resorting to ad hominem again?
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
I'm asking you, since you believe that something must be done and that something needs to be done, how you propose to do that.
You are putting thoughts and words into my mind that were not communicated by me. Why would anything need to be done since euthanasia isn't legal. As to the terminally ill person, I stated what should be done in terms of food and water.


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Resorting to ad hominem again?
No, pointing our your posting style to using questions to frame what I said differently. It's a legit point. Particularly since it's Donger's hallmark and not yours.

I don't plan on getting into a long debate on this one. Just stating my opinion.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:06 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
You are putting thoughts and words into my mind that were not communicated by me. Why would anything need to be done since euthanasia isn't legal. As to the terminally ill person, I stated what should be done in terms of food and water.
Once again, I am asking you how you propose to ensure that these things that you believe must be done and need to be done...are done. It's a simple question.




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No, pointing our your posting style to using questions to frame what I said differently. It's a legit point. Particularly since it's Donger's hallmark and not yours.

I don't plan on getting into a long debate on this one. Just stating my opinion.
Strawman.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:30 PM   #40
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Propose what to be done? I said euthanasia is illegal. That's all there is to it.
I made a statement in support of life and no human having any right to take it was all.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:42 PM   #41
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Strawman.
Nope. Not when I explain why I said something. I didn't restate your position on this issue.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:52 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Propose what to be done? I said euthanasia is illegal. That's all there is to it.
I made a statement in support of life and no human having any right to take it was all.
Would you consider allowing someone to starve a form of euthanasia? I am only referring to situations where that person is in your care and that person has no hope of feeding themselves.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:55 PM   #43
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I'll make it even broader because it's just as relevant: Is it euthanasia in your opinion to withdraw medical care (including the fulfillment of basic functions that a patient can not perform for themselves) with the intent of allowing someone to die?
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:03 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Would you consider allowing someone to starve a form of euthanasia? I am only referring to situations where that person is in your care and that person has no hope of feeding themselves.
I stated my opinion above.
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:04 PM   #45
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Euthanasia definition

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the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy
I would consider withholding care (i.e.nutrition) a passive process and distinct from an active process of killing. Although they may lead to a similar end (death), I would believe that they are different.

http://www.patientsrightscouncil.org...are-decisions/

Quote:
The words “euthanasia” and “assisted suicide” are often used interchangeably. However, they are different and, in the law, they are treated differently. In this report, “euthanasia” is defined as intentionally, knowingly and directly acting to cause the death of another person (e.g., giving a lethal injection). “Assisted suicide” is defined as intentionally, knowingly and directly providing the means of death to another person so that the person can use that means to commit suicide (e.g., providing a prescription for a lethal dose of drugs).

Withholding and withdrawing medical treatment and care are not legally considered euthanasia or assisted suicide. Withholding or withdrawing food and fluids is considered acceptable removal of a “medical treatment.”
http://www.ncbi..nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947968/
Quote:
The right of patients to refuse or request withdrawal of life-sustaining treatment has been upheld in US courts, including the Supreme Court2,35,36 (Table).20 These cases have established that no treatment has unique moral status and that ANH are medical treatments, not basic care. Thus, withdrawal or withholding ANH is ethically equivalent to refusing any other treatment as long as the patient or surrogate makes an informed choice and intent is removal of a burdensome intervention....In contrast to physician-assisted suicide or euthanasia, withdrawal of or withholding life-sustaining treatment and PS are ethically sound options.
The michigan physician guide to end of life care says this:

Quote:
Q. Is withdrawal or withholding medical care considered euthanasia?
A. No. Withdrawal or withholding of treatment is a decision to allow a disease to
follow its natural course, which may result in a patient’s death. Euthanasia, on
the other hand, is a conscious decision to take actions with the specific intent
to end a patient’s life
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