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Old 04-02-2014, 09:36 AM  
WhawhaWhat WhawhaWhat is offline
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The Supreme Court strikes down campaign donation limits

http://news.yahoo.com/high-court-voi...--finance.html

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WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court struck down limits Wednesday in federal law on the overall campaign contributions the biggest individual donors may make to candidates, political parties and political action committees.

The justices said in a 5-4 vote that Americans have a right to give the legal maximum to candidates for Congress and president, as well as to parties and PACs, without worrying that they will violate the law when they bump up against a limit on all contributions, set at $123,200 for 2013 and 2014. That includes a separate $48,600 cap on contributions to candidates.

But their decision does not undermine limits on individual contributions to candidates for president or Congress, now $2,600 an election.

Chief Justice John Roberts announced the decision, which split the court's liberal and conservative justices. Roberts said the aggregate limits do not act to prevent corruption, the rationale the court has upheld as justifying contribution limits.

The overall limits "intrude without justification on a citizen's ability to exercise 'the most fundamental First Amendment activities,'" Roberts said, quoting from the court's seminal 1976 campaign finance ruling in Buckley v. Valeo.

Justice Clarence Thomas agreed with the outcome of the case, but wrote separately to say that he would have gone further and wiped away all contribution limits.

Justice Stephen Breyer, writing for the liberal dissenters, took the unusual step of reading a summary of his opinion from the bench.

Congress enacted the limits in the wake of Watergate-era abuses to discourage big contributors from trying to buy votes with their donations and to restore public confidence in the campaign finance system.

But in a series of rulings in recent years, the Roberts court has struck down provisions of federal law aimed at limiting the influence of big donors as unconstitutional curbs on free speech rights.

Most notably, in 2010, the court divided 5-4 in the Citizens United case to free corporations and labor unions to spend as much as they wish on campaign advocacy, as long as it is independent of candidates and their campaigns. That decision did not affect contribution limits to individual candidates, political parties and political action committees.

Republican activist Shaun McCutcheon of Hoover, Ala., the national Republican party and Senate GOP leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky challenged the overall limits on what contributors may give in a two-year federal election cycle. The total is $123,200, including a separate $48,600 cap on contributions to candidates, for 2013 and 2014.

Limits on individual contributions, currently $2,600 per election to candidates for Congress, are not at issue.

Relaxed campaign finance rules have reduced the influence of political parties, McConnell and the GOP argued.

McCutcheon gave the symbolically significant $1,776 to 15 candidates for Congress and wanted to give the same amount to 12 others. But doing so would have put him in violation of the cap.

Nearly 650 donors contributed the maximum amount to candidates, PACs and parties in the last election cycle, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

The court did not heed warnings from Solicitor General Donald Verrilli Jr. and advocates of campaign finance limits that donors would be able to funnel large amounts of money to a favored candidate in the absence of the overall limit.

The Republicans also called on the court to abandon its practice over nearly 40 years of evaluating limits on contributions less skeptically than restrictions on spending.

The differing levels of scrutiny have allowed the court to uphold most contribution limits, because of the potential for corruption in large direct donations to candidates. At the same time, the court has found that independent spending does not pose the same risk of corruption and has applied a higher level of scrutiny to laws that seek to limit spending.

If the court were to drop the distinction between contributions and expenditures, even limits on contributions to individual candidates for Congress, currently $2,600 per election, would be threatened, said Fred Wertheimer, a longtime supporter of stringent campaign finance laws.
The more you give, the more you get.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:21 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by RaiderH8r View Post
Do any of you really understand this decision or is this just typical, knee jerk reaction?
Good point. And thanks for your later clarification on it.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:25 PM
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:26 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
I am getting really tired of this aweful court. Holding to strict interpretation on money and expression....but taxes that didn't originate in the House...ahh"whatever".
they don't always have to
but the thing you are probably talking about, they did
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:42 PM   #33
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So long as all donations are disclosed and transparent, there should be no limits on any spending or donations.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:46 PM   #34
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Another good point about disclosure. I forgot about that one...it's I used to use.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderH8r View Post
The government's argument in support of aggregate limits was based on the notion that an individual could circumvent base limits by giving to parties and PACs funds earmarked to go to a candidate. This is currently prohibited by law and any such earmarked contribution would count against that donor's base limit for a candidate. Therefore, aggregate limits did little to nothing to dissuade this activity.

Christ, read the ****ing thing for yourselves. Go out and understand the nature and statutes governing campaign finance rather than being spoon fed this misinformed pablum.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...2-536_e1pf.pdf
Your equivocation and conflation of campaign contributions, regardless of where they come from, is not the point, really.The only thing that really matters in the end...is this decision, along with Citizens United, allows those with large amounts of money to buy ever more political influence, politicians, and elections.

Despite conservative's view, money is in no way equivalent to free speech protected by the first amendment--at least not in the minds of anyone who wants to retain any semblence of a truly democratic society. Of course, with many conservatives, a plutocracy is precisely what they want though.

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Originally Posted by RaiderH8r View Post
No. That is a violation of the First Amendment.
We need an amendment; the question is how fast, and how serious? Let's hope it is...soon, and very serious.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:31 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Your equivocation and conflation of campaign contributions, regardless of where they come from, is not the point, really.The only thing that really matters in the end...is this decision, along with Citizens United, allows those with large amounts of money to buy ever more political influence, politicians, and elections.

Despite conservative's view, money is in no way equivalent to free speech protected by the first amendment--at least not in the minds of anyone who wants to retain any semblence of a truly democratic society. Of course, with many conservatives, a plutocracy is precisely what they want though.
I view these as different discussions so I'm making the distinction that it matters where money comes from as it serves different purposes. Citizens United allowed corporations to operate on the same field that has been afforded to unions for years and engage in issue advocacy that directly impacts their operations. These activities cannot be coordinated with any campaign or candidate. Issue. Advocacy.

Individual campaign contributions go directly towards campaigns, candidates, PACs and parties. These funds are a direct expression of an individual's support for these entities insofar as they represent values, ideas, and philosophies that an individual feels best represents them. Individual campaign contributions remain subject to base limits as well as a multitude of other statutory and regulatory frameworks governing how they are given and spent.

At issue with individual campaign limits is to avoid impropriety and the appearance of impropriety, most frequently referred to as quid pro quo. So, do you believe an individual contribution maximum of $5,200 has a corrupting effect on a candidate? More precisely, do you believe a Member can be bought by any single donor for $5,200?
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:31 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Your equivocation and conflation of campaign contributions, regardless of where they come from, is not the point, really.The only thing that really matters in the end...is this decision, along with Citizens United, allows those with large amounts of money to buy ever more political influence, politicians, and elections.

Despite conservative's view, money is in no way equivalent to free speech protected by the first amendment--at least not in the minds of anyone who wants to retain any semblence of a truly democratic society. Of course, with many conservatives, a plutocracy is precisely what they want though.



We need an amendment; the question is how fast, and how serious? Let's hope it is...soon, and very serious.
So you want to effectively shut down citizens' right to participate in the electoral process? How very democratic of you.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:45 PM   #38
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Restricting Republican donations...good
Restricting Democrat donations... bad
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Koch Brothers Evil as Giant Mosquitos the size of Crane Flies
Union money....clean and pure



Kotters next class lecture.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:12 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderH8r View Post
So you want to effectively shut down citizens' right to participate in the electoral process? How very democratic of you.
No, in a democracy--the playing field in politics should be even, not weighted even more heavily in favor of the elite than it is otherwise.

Quote:
These activities cannot be coordinated with any campaign or candidate. Issue. Advocacy.
You know as well as I do, that is a joke. Separation of issues and candidates in our process is an illusion.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:14 PM   #40
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Restricting Republican donations...good
Restricting Democrat donations... bad
George Soros...A Great Man for all time
That Adelson Jew Guy...Bad as Satans own seed
Koch Brothers Evil as Giant Mosquitos the size of Crane Flies
Union money....clean and pure



Kotters next class lecture.
Restricting all donors, good. Restricting both sides the same, good. Restrict unions and corps the same, good. Restriction on unfettered access to political influence, and buying of elections and politicians, by the privileged elite, very good. Wrong, HCF. Again.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:16 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Restricting Republican donations...good
Restricting Democrat donations... bad
George Soros...A Great Man for all time
That Adelson Jew Guy...Bad as Satans own seed
Koch Brothers Evil as Giant Mosquitos the size of Crane Flies
Union money....clean and pure



Kotters next class lecture.
restricting repub donations, good but not as good as publicly-funded elections...

restricting dem donations, see repub above...

soros, not so great, just wealthy...

adelson, not so great, just unimaginably wealthy...

koch bros, not so great, just really really rich...

union money, see public financing above...
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:16 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
No, in a democracy--the playing field in politics should be even, not weighted even more heavily in favor of the elite than it is otherwise.
Quote:
Sixty percent of the Super PAC money donated by individuals came from just 91 people, and 97 percent came from just 1,900 donors. The total amount that PACs raised from small donors of $200 or less is roughly equivalent to the amount given by just 629 “megadonors,” who each contributed $100,000 or more. “Because of their wealth and the Supreme Court’s equation of money with speech, those megadonors are able to amplify their voices to more than 3,100 times the volume of the small donors,” report co-author Blair Bowie said. - See more at: http://www.metro.us/philadelphia/new....oyBUNMWA.dpuf
http://www.metro.us/philadelphia/new...ited-election/

Everyone has free speech. The rich just get more of it and the ability to give it to people in charge of regulating them.

Move to Amend!

https://movetoamend.org/
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:19 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Restricting all donors, good. Restricting both sides the same, good. Restrict unions and corps the same, good. Restriction on unfettered access to political influence, and buying of elections and politicians, by the privileged elite, very good. Wrong, HCF. Again.
well, this too...

but with a public finance option being the best of all worlds...
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:21 PM   #44
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An amendment would be unconstitutional.

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Old 04-02-2014, 03:24 PM   #45
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well, this too...

but with a public finance option being the best of all worlds...
Public finance would be awesome.
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