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Old 04-02-2014, 09:05 PM  
Alex Smith 4Ever Alex Smith 4Ever is offline
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Dumb idea of the day: Let Alex Smith play out his contract

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2014/4...t-his-contract

A year ago I suggested that Alex Smith should be extended because the price would never be lower. Obviously 99% of the forum was against me, but the deal I suggested would be a bargain today.

Now paid writers are literally suggesting to let Alex play it out when there is no chance that the Chiefs could match free agent offers for him. Their defense is that he could get hurt. Wow, and if he gets hurt, who plays QB? Chiefs are screwed either way

Best case scenario if we don't extend Alex soon is the franchise tag and that means massively overpaying for another key position
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:20 PM   #121
Chief Roundup Chief Roundup is online now
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Originally Posted by Rausch View Post
What ****ing tool wants to pay 20 mil a year to a not-t0p-5 QB?

Almost 1/5th of the entire team cap to one guy?

And that guy is Alex Smith?

Has this BB lost its ****ing mind?...
Get your panties out of the bunch they are in.
Nobody has said anything about paying him 20 mil a year.
And 20 a year is closer to 1/7th of the cap.
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Alex Smith is really talented. BIG arm, very mobile.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:24 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by temper11 View Post
I'm still a 49er fan. I live in Sacramento. I know that many of you will now disregard anything I have to say and that's fine.... but I'm also a fan of the Chiefs. I've been a fan of the Chiefs for years after following Montana over there and a few QB's since then.

I've always been a fan of players and will follow my favorites from time to time. I get that some fans don't give a shit about individual players and that is there right too. For example, I just saw a post in another thread that suggested we should get rid of Charles - which astounds me that anyone would want that given the level of his play and the strength of his character.

But Smith was unfairly abused by spoiled 9ers fans for years. They expected him to overcome obstacles that no QB in my opinion could have and used him as their scape goat and whipping boy. I was embarrassed by our fans and want nothing more than to see the Alex Smith led Chiefs destroy my 9ers on their home turf this coming year. I've said as much on the niners boards and as you can imagine, have received an insult or two. But I'm not alone over there. When the Chiefs come to town, there will be a number of 9ers fans in the stands, that while not so vocal about it, are pulling for Smith to put up a monster day.
Yes.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:31 PM   #123
temper11 temper11 is offline
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Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
, suuuuuure you aren't playing both sides.


if he signs a big deal its because that's what he wants dude, his agent cant MAKE him take a bigger deal.
There are plenty of other's here that disagree with your statement about what an agent can and can't do. In fact, prior to the start of the 2012 season, Smith was quoted as saying that he'd already agreed to the terms on the table and didn't know why the deal wasn't done yet. Then we find out later that Condon was pitching Manning to the niners. So if the niners made Smith an offer and Smith agreed to that offer, why wasn't it finalized? Seems to me that Condon specifically held out to allow the niners to kick the tires on manning.

But if that's true, why the **** would Smith stay with Condon?

What I do believe, is that Smith is more interested in a team that is going to commit to him. If they can find a way to do that, that doesn't involve a huge payday, I think he will take it.

It may be however that Condon convinces Smith that the only way to get that commitment that Smith seeks is via a huge contract. And he may be right.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:32 PM   #124
Dragonocho Dragonocho is offline
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$12M would be WELL below market value.
Yep. You are right. Market value (external equity) will be. It's inflated.

I was trying to say that relative to a $130 million cap, he is worth about $12 million (internal equity).

Question to me is how much of a premium does Dorsey put on a quality starting QB because every dollar you spend on him is a dollar not available for talent at other positions.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:52 PM   #125
JASONSAUTO JASONSAUTO is offline
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Originally Posted by temper11 View Post
There are plenty of other's here that disagree with your statement about what an agent can and can't do. In fact, prior to the start of the 2012 season, Smith was quoted as saying that he'd already agreed to the terms on the table and didn't know why the deal wasn't done yet. Then we find out later that Condon was pitching Manning to the niners. So if the niners made Smith an offer and Smith agreed to that offer, why wasn't it finalized? Seems to me that Condon specifically held out to allow the niners to kick the tires on manning.

But if that's true, why the **** would Smith stay with Condon?

What I do believe, is that Smith is more interested in a team that is going to commit to him. If they can find a way to do that, that doesn't involve a huge payday, I think he will take it.

It may be however that Condon convinces Smith that the only way to get that commitment that Smith seeks is via a huge contract. And he may be right.
show me someone here that thinks an agent can MAKE a player accept or decline a contract...

that's dumb dude.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:57 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
show me someone here that thinks an agent can MAKE a player accept or decline a contract...

that's dumb dude.
I don't think I ever used the words "MAKE". I think they have a lot of influence on a player and the negotiations.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:59 PM   #127
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He isn't worth 20 million. Dang
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:09 PM   #128
JASONSAUTO JASONSAUTO is offline
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Originally Posted by temper11 View Post
I don't think I ever used the words "MAKE". I think they have a lot of influence on a player and the negotiations.
well you did say condon WONT take a hit to his reputation by taking a smaller deal. what would he do about it?
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:45 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
well you did say condon WONT take a hit to his reputation by taking a smaller deal. what would he do about it?
I don't know what he would do about it or what he can and can't do about it. Again I reference the situation pre 2012. Smith said the niners presented him with an offer, and he accepted the offer, and didn't know why the deal wasn't done. He said he'd assumed they were working out some of the ancillary details. Come to find out, Condon was likely working another deal with Manning.

I've never been in this position in which someone is negotiating on my behalf with a personal interest at stake in those negotiations. I don't claim to know what power he has or doesn't have. I'm just a fool, with an opinion on a message board.
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:46 PM   #130
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He isn't worth 20 million. Dang
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:48 PM   #131
JASONSAUTO JASONSAUTO is offline
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Originally Posted by temper11 View Post
I don't know what he would do about it or what he can and can't do about it. Again I reference the situation pre 2012. Smith said the niners presented him with an offer, and he accepted the offer, and didn't know why the deal wasn't done. He said he'd assumed they were working out some of the ancillary details. Come to find out, Condon was likely working another deal with Manning.

I've never been in this position in which someone is negotiating on my behalf with a personal interest at stake in those negotiations. I don't claim to know what power he has or doesn't have. I'm just a fool, with an opinion on a message board.
if that was true he should have fired the agent on the ****ing spot...

he didn't so it obviously wasn't.

use some common sense dude.
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Old 04-03-2014, 04:04 PM   #132
temper11 temper11 is offline
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Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
if that was true he should have fired the agent on the ****ing spot...

he didn't so it obviously wasn't.

use some common sense dude.
Or maybe that's just how things work in the NFL. Condon is working for both Manning and Smith and probably a few other QB's. I'm not na´ve to think that agents and players have relationships like Jerry McGuire in which he is only focused on one player. That IS the way it happened though - publically. I don't know what back story was going on, but Smith expressed that he'd agreed to the terms on the table, then it was reported that the niners were looking at Manning and Smith suddenly started scrambling to see what teams were interested. I think he even flew out to Miami. Maybe it was the niners dragging their feet when Manning cleared his physical, but I'm sure Condon wasn't pushing them very hard to finalize the deal with Smith either since he was also Manning's agent and due to gain far more commission (are they commission based?) from a Manning deal than he was from Smith's. Truth is, no one but those involved in the negotiations know exactly how that played out.

And if things did go down like that, Smith may have wanted to shit-can Condon, just as he probably wanted to piss on San Fran fans, and be a cancer in the locker room when he lost his job to injury, or do anything other than what professionalism required of him at any time in his career. But that is not the way Smith roles. Condon is said to be one of the best agents out there, and Smith was going to need all the connections he could get during that period of his career in which that huge question mark hung over his head.

It's all speculation, and probably not near so simple as you claim it to be.

Last edited by temper11; 04-03-2014 at 05:44 PM..
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Old 04-04-2014, 04:37 AM   #133
KCSLC2008 KCSLC2008 is offline
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Here's what I think happened:

1. 49ers wanted Manning but didn't want to take the publicity hit if Manning chose elsewhere. They didn't want Smith to know (benefit of same agent for Manning and Smith - Condon has the responsibility to know what could affect Smith but can also remain in confidence re his other client Manning) or the media hounding him with commitment-to-Smith questions.
2. 49ers thus offered a contract that could sign Manning and keep Smith. Someone reported that the contract was backloaded and had incentives for reaching statistics that you can't get if you're not starting (if a Manning comes). 49ers knew he wasn't signing this but it put the ball in Smith's court.
3. Pursued Manning secretly, pissed it became public. Other theory is that it would push Smith to accept the lower deal (incentives), possibly in hopes of Kaepernick if Manning didn't come.
4. Manning passed, Smith was talked to, Smith went to Miami before Manning passed, and they restructured their offer to a "pay me starter money (bench/starting), trade, or release me" deal. Team friendly mixed with the April roster date (year is guaranteed if on roster on April 1).
5. Structure changed.

In regards to this year, I think Smith would take a big contract that KC isn't willing to do right now or wait until the draft before taking a team friendly deal. Smith can compete, he can accept being replaced if playing poorly, but he won't willingly accept being replaced when playing well like he did in SF. He didn't like being at the mercy of SF for being traded. He wants to see if we draft anyone. If they do, he'll stick to his numbers and play his contract out if not met. If no QB heir apparent selected, he'll sign the team friendly. Just my opinion. I think he has accepted Bray, as he has really no choice to beat him out.
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Old 04-04-2014, 04:43 AM   #134
KCSLC2008 KCSLC2008 is offline
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In regards to agents' authority - it's the player's power but agent has much influenced. For example:

When Manning decided to sign with the Broncos, he asked Condon: "What does Tom Brady make?"

"$18 million a year," Condon replied, according to MMQB.com.

"Then I don't want to make a penny more than that," Manning said.

The agent told MMQB.com that Manning was "incensed" at him when he found out the Broncos' offer was for $19.4 million annually, telling his agent, "I told you I didn't want to make more than Brady."

Condon ultimately apologized. He called Manning's wife, who said, "I'll take care of it" and then persuaded Manning to take the deal, according to MMQB.com.

espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=10682817&src=desktop
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Old 04-04-2014, 06:09 AM   #135
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if hes not worth the $ (reasonable).. Then who out there that that is available is??
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