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Old 04-03-2014, 12:38 PM  
KC native KC native is offline
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L.P.D.: LIBERTARIAN POLICE DEPARTMENT

I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.

“Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”

“What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”

“Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”

The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”

“Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”

“Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”

He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”

“Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”

I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.

“Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.

“Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.

“Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”

It didn’t seem like they did.

“Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”

Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.

I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.

“Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.

Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.

“Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.

I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”

He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.

“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”

“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.

“Because I was afraid.”

“Afraid?”

“Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”

I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.

“Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”

He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.

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Old 04-10-2014, 01:13 PM   #31
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Libertarianism is stronger than it's been in over 100 years, regardless of anything Cochise is saying in this thread. To say that the libertarians have been "marginalized" is to demonstrate being out of touch with what is actually happening.

Libertarians were OK with Cochise when they had no power in the political dialogue. But now that they've grown in power, he finds them "marginalized." Funny how that works. What is really happening is that his own point of view is being marginalized, and he's projecting those feelings on the source of that marginalization in hopes that he can flip the script.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:31 PM   #32
DayeMania DayeMania is offline
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:33 PM   #33
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
As far as Paul goes, he didn't pull support from Republicans. He gave a few politically homeless people someone to vote for in a party primary, but what are the main issues that were pulling those people in? Primarily isolationism, abolish the fed, states rights, social liberalism, etc. He was pulling the few people he did pull out of libertarian camps, whether they identified as such or not.
Simply a ridiculous statement.
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:38 PM   #34
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Libertarianism is stronger than it's been in over 100 years, regardless of anything Cochise is saying in this thread. To say that the libertarians have been "marginalized" is to demonstrate being out of touch with what is actually happening.

Libertarians were OK with Cochise when they had no power in the political dialogue. But now that they've grown in power, he finds them "marginalized." Funny how that works. What is really happening is that his own point of view is being marginalized, and he's projecting those feelings on the source of that marginalization in hopes that he can flip the script.
See, Taco knows what's up. This is what I said.

Unfortunately for the Ls, strongest in 100 years still means squat at the polls. A lot more people identify as Ls than actually vote that way.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:45 AM   #35
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
See, Taco knows what's up. This is what I said.

Unfortunately for the Ls, strongest in 100 years still means squat at the polls. A lot more people identify as Ls than actually vote that way.
The vast majority of people who claim to be libertarian, simply aren't.

Most are simply too embarrassed to call themselves Republicans.


Others, like most of the posters around here, aren't libertarian either.

The Neo-Confederates like BEP, they are not libertarians because they place the non-existent concept of "States' Rights" (States no more have Rights than corporations do ― not even that much, in fact) above the Inherent and Unalienable Rights of Natural Persons. Anyone who claims to be libertarian, but talks about "state rights" is not a true Libertarian.

Those Ayn Rand freaks. Not libertarian either. They place the non-existent "rights" of corporations above the Inherent and Unalienable Rights of Natural Persons. The apparent "rights" of corporations (and other Aggregate Persons) are legal fictions (as are the Aggregate Persons themselves), mere Powers (which, unlike Rights, are granted or bestowed by human agency and thus can be revoked or rescinded by same) which merely mimic certain limited Rights of Natural Persons, and then only as needed to allow for equal footing participation in contract and civil tort law.

Libertarian only has one principle. the Inherent and Unalienable Rights of Natural Persons.

Anyone who tries to place a corporation or state government above Natural Persons is not a libertarian. Hence, there are no actual libertarians on this site.
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Old 04-11-2014, 08:57 AM   #36
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Almost none of that makes any sense.
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Old 04-11-2014, 09:50 AM   #37
Cochise Cochise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
See, Taco knows what's up. This is what I said.

Unfortunately for the Ls, strongest in 100 years still means squat at the polls. A lot more people identify as Ls than actually vote that way.
Nah. Now that Ron is out to pasture, once Rand's political career peaks, whether it's in the Senate or whatever else, they will fade back to where they were 10 or 15 years ago
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:33 AM   #38
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The vast majority of people who claim to be libertarian, simply aren't.

Most are simply too embarrassed to call themselves Republicans.


Others, like most of the posters around here, aren't libertarian either.

The Neo-Confederates like BEP, they are not libertarians because they place the non-existent concept of "States' Rights" (States no more have Rights than corporations do ― not even that much, in fact) above the Inherent and Unalienable Rights of Natural Persons. Anyone who claims to be libertarian, but talks about "state rights" is not a true Libertarian.

Those Ayn Rand freaks. Not libertarian either. They place the non-existent "rights" of corporations above the Inherent and Unalienable Rights of Natural Persons. The apparent "rights" of corporations (and other Aggregate Persons) are legal fictions (as are the Aggregate Persons themselves), mere Powers (which, unlike Rights, are granted or bestowed by human agency and thus can be revoked or rescinded by same) which merely mimic certain limited Rights of Natural Persons, and then only as needed to allow for equal footing participation in contract and civil tort law.

Libertarian only has one principle. the Inherent and Unalienable Rights of Natural Persons.

Anyone who tries to place a corporation or state government above Natural Persons is not a libertarian. Hence, there are no actual libertarians on this site.
True. It's kind of the trendy political thing right now.
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:35 AM   #39
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Nah. Now that Ron is out to pasture, once Rand's political career peaks, whether it's in the Senate or whatever else, they will fade back to where they were 10 or 15 years ago
Maybe so, but we're talking right now.
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:19 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
True. It's kind of the trendy political thing right now.
Very little of that was true.
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Old 04-12-2014, 12:16 AM   #41
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The vast majority of people who claim to be libertarian, simply aren't.

Most are simply too embarrassed to call themselves Republicans.


Others, like most of the posters around here, aren't libertarian either.

The Neo-Confederates like BEP, they are not libertarians because they place the non-existent concept of "States' Rights" (States no more have Rights than corporations do ― not even that much, in fact) above the Inherent and Unalienable Rights of Natural Persons. Anyone who claims to be libertarian, but talks about "state rights" is not a true Libertarian.

Those Ayn Rand freaks. Not libertarian either. They place the non-existent "rights" of corporations above the Inherent and Unalienable Rights of Natural Persons. The apparent "rights" of corporations (and other Aggregate Persons) are legal fictions (as are the Aggregate Persons themselves), mere Powers (which, unlike Rights, are granted or bestowed by human agency and thus can be revoked or rescinded by same) which merely mimic certain limited Rights of Natural Persons, and then only as needed to allow for equal footing participation in contract and civil tort law.

Libertarian only has one principle. the Inherent and Unalienable Rights of Natural Persons.

Anyone who tries to place a corporation or state government above Natural Persons is not a libertarian. Hence, there are no actual libertarians on this site.
This is silly stuff...
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:00 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
This is silly stuff...
It's actually fairly simple.

A true libertarian only has one principle. The inherent and Unalienable Rights of Natural Persons. Like What Jefferson Wrote about.

Anyone who claims to be libertarian, but places either a State government or a corporation above Natural Persons are not libertarian. Hence, there are not actual Libertarians because most people who claim to be libertarian also claim to be for "state rights" or support corporations being people.

Take Ron and Rand Paul. They are neo-Confederates who promote the false concept of State Rights. (See Paul's "We the People Act). Promoting states rights OVER the rights of Natural Peron's is not Libertarian.

Anybody who promotes Corporations as people, or as having rights, like say religious rights, is not a libertarian.

Corporations are Aggregate Persons, a entity CREATED as a legal fiction to enable them to interact in contract and court of law. As such, their powers are bestowed upon them by natural persons, they have no "rights".

It might be argued a true Libertarian would be against the concept of corporations as they shield individual responsibility which against the basis of libertarian, the unique status of individuals having inherent rights.
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Old 04-12-2014, 01:21 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
It's actually fairly simple.

A true libertarian only has one principle. The inherent and Unalienable Rights of Natural Persons. Like What Jefferson Wrote about.

Anyone who claims to be libertarian, but places either a State government or a corporation above Natural Persons are not libertarian. Hence, there are not actual Libertarians because most people who claim to be libertarian also claim to be for "state rights" or support corporations being people.

Take Ron and Rand Paul. They are neo-Confederates who promote the false concept of State Rights. (See Paul's "We the People Act). Promoting states rights OVER the rights of Natural Peron's is not Libertarian.

Anybody who promotes Corporations as people, or as having rights, like say religious rights, is not a libertarian.

Corporations are Aggregate Persons, a entity CREATED as a legal fiction to enable them to interact in contract and court of law. As such, their powers are bestowed upon them by natural persons, they have no "rights".

It might be argued a true Libertarian would be against the concept of corporations as they shield individual responsibility which against the basis of libertarian, the unique status of individuals having inherent rights.
Libertarianism is about liberty. There are many facets to that and that does include that people have inherent freedoms. What you are confusing is total freedom and what libertarians mean when they say liberty. Liberty is not total freedom and libertarians believe that a government, which doesn't have rights it has powers by the way, should protect the rights of its citizens.

Total freedom would give a person the right to kill, steal, assault, and defraud whomever they choose. Libertarians believe that your rights end when they border the rights of another person. Libertarians believe that a government has a power granted to it by the will of the people to punish those that violate the rights of its citizens. Defense, policing, and being an impartial judge in civil matters are the only legitimate powers of government.

Some libertarians believe that smaller more local governments are more responsive to their citizens and this was the plan for the the US government under the Articles of Confederation and then the Constitution. With the federal government being the most unimportant in the everyday lives of the citizens since it had the most limited powers due to the 10th amendment.

Libertarians also believe that just because a group of people voluntarily bond together for a purpose whether that is economic, charitable, social, religious, etc that they do not lose their rights and that the rights of the individual member are transferable to the collective venture. So for example corporations, businesses, unions, social organizations, churches, etc have free speech rights because each member has free speech rights.

Kinda funny having a socialist try and tell libertarians what they believe.
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Old 04-12-2014, 04:36 PM   #44
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Yep saved me $4000 a year. Thanks Obama!
One of the few. As Harry Reid said, you must be lying.
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Old 04-13-2014, 10:00 AM   #45
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Libertarianism is about liberty. There are many facets to that and that does include that people have inherent freedoms. What you are confusing is total freedom and what libertarians mean when they say liberty. Liberty is not total freedom and libertarians believe that a government, which doesn't have rights it has powers by the way, should protect the rights of its citizens.

Total freedom would give a person the right to kill, steal, assault, and defraud whomever they choose. Libertarians believe that your rights end when they border the rights of another person. Libertarians believe that a government has a power granted to it by the will of the people to punish those that violate the rights of its citizens. Defense, policing, and being an impartial judge in civil matters are the only legitimate powers of government.

Some libertarians believe that smaller more local governments are more responsive to their citizens and this was the plan for the the US government under the Articles of Confederation and then the Constitution. With the federal government being the most unimportant in the everyday lives of the citizens since it had the most limited powers due to the 10th amendment.

Libertarians also believe that just because a group of people voluntarily bond together for a purpose whether that is economic, charitable, social, religious, etc that they do not lose their rights and that the rights of the individual member are transferable to the collective venture. So for example corporations, businesses, unions, social organizations, churches, etc have free speech rights because each member has free speech rights.

Kinda funny having a socialist try and tell libertarians what they believe.

Kinda funny you didn't read a single thing I wrote.

First I said this:

"A true libertarian only has one principle. The inherent and Unalienable Rights of Natural Persons. Like What Jefferson Wrote about. "

That has nothing to do with Total Freedom.

Second. I already said states have powers, not rights. Which is why Neo-Confederate Like yourself who try to place state rights over the rights of people are not true libertarians. It's okay though, a lot of republicans get the two confused now-a-days.

You should work on reading comprehension.

Third, libertarians can have other concerns and issues they promote. But the natural and unalienable rights of people is the top concern. If they place anything over that concern of natural and unalienable rights, they are not libertarian.

Also, demand side polices aren't socialism. So you don't know what socialism means either, eh?
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