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Old 04-10-2014, 09:13 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is online now
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Jail this bitch. Get the truth out.
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
She gave an opening statement, not testimony.
She didn't answer any questions about the subject matter--that's the key.


From the case you cited:
Having freely answered self-incriminating questions relating to her connection with the Communist Party, petitioner could not refuse to answer further questions which would not subject her to a real danger of further incrimination. (my emphasis)
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:17 PM   #17
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
Because Congress hasn't done shit... that's your measure of right & wrong?

Precedent? Here - basically, you can't use the fifth once you open your mouth on a subject. Different subject, sure - same subject, no.

The idea here is that you can't cherry pick -- using the Fifth Amendment as a shield to refuse to answer questions you don't like, while simultaneously answering questions that exonerate you.

As I understand it, she made a general statement, which is really nothing more than a broad opinion that she didn't do anything wrong, and then asserted the Fifth. I find it challenging to believe that that constitutes a waiver. No specifics, not even "testimony" as to any facts or circumstances that establish either wrongdoing or innocence.

Unfortunately for her, it will likely cost an amazing amount to determine this through the courts if Congress presses her on it, as seems likely for as long as Republicans have the House.
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:08 PM   #18
AustinChief AustinChief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
The idea here is that you can't cherry pick -- using the Fifth Amendment as a shield to refuse to answer questions you don't like, while simultaneously answering questions that exonerate you.

As I understand it, she made a general statement, which is really nothing more than a broad opinion that she didn't do anything wrong, and then asserted the Fifth. I find it challenging to believe that that constitutes a waiver. No specifics, not even "testimony" as to any facts or circumstances that establish either wrongdoing or innocence.

Unfortunately for her, it will likely cost an amazing amount to determine this through the courts if Congress presses her on it, as seems likely for as long as Republicans have the House.
I think the issue is when she asserted she broke no laws. That (to me) opens the door. Then she went and spoke with the Justice Dept attorneys. She is clearly abusing the 5th Amendment and I wouldn't be surprised to see a ruling to back this up. I also wouldn't be too surprised for her to get away with it either. Anyone who thinks this is cut and dried is wrong. There are plenty of solid legal opinions on opposite sides of this.

All of that aside, I do think she deserves to go to jail along with Rep Cummings. Both are complete sleaze and abused the hell out of their positions.
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:14 PM   #19
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I think the issue is when she asserted she broke no laws. That (to me) opens the door. Then she went and spoke with the Justice Dept attorneys. She is clearly abusing the 5th Amendment and I wouldn't be surprised to see a ruling to back this up. I also wouldn't be too surprised for her to get away with it either. Anyone who thinks this is cut and dried is an idiot. There are plenty of solid legal opinions on opposite sides of this.
All of that aside, I do think she deserves to go to jail along with Rep Cummings. Both are complete sleaze and abused the hell out of their positions.
Saying "I'm innocent" is waiving? C'mon...

Has there been a similar situation where a person was deemed to have waived? BY similar situation, I mean waived not by answering questions but by giving a statement prior to questions?
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:25 PM   #20
AustinChief AustinChief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Saying "I'm innocent" is waiving? C'mon...

Has there been a similar situation where a person was deemed to have waived? BY similar situation, I mean waived not by answering questions but by giving a statement prior to questions?
Rogers v. US then later affirmed by Miller v. US. If that was all we had to go on, you'd look like an idiot because it would be cut and dried that she did waive her right... but that isn't all we have. There is plenty of support on the other side of the debate as well.

btw.. saying "I'm guilty" has been held to be a waiver, but some courts have disagreed on if saying "I broke no laws" should as well.
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:55 PM   #21
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Rogers v. US then later affirmed by Miller v. US. If that was all we had to go on, you'd look like an idiot because it would be cut and dried that she did waive her right... but that isn't all we have. There is plenty of support on the other side of the debate as well.

btw.. saying "I'm guilty" has been held to be a waiver, but some courts have disagreed on if saying "I broke no laws" should as well.
I've already addressed this--In Rogers, the person answered questions, then tried to plead the 5th. Lois didn't answer any questions.
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