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Old 04-17-2014, 10:33 PM  
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**2014 Official NBA Playoffs Thread**

Round 1:

EAST:

#8 Hawks @ #1 Pacers
#7 Bobcats @ #2 Heat
#6 Nets @ #3 Raptors
#5 Wizards @ #4 Bulls

WEST:
#8 Mavericks @ #1 Spurs
#7 Grizzlies @ #2 Thunder
#6 Warriors @ #3 Clippers
#5 Blazers @ #4 Rockets

Last edited by -King-; 04-17-2014 at 10:39 PM..
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:31 AM   #5116
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post


I didn't deny any Boston fanship.
I specifically asked you whether you were a fan of Boston sports. You said no.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:32 AM   #5117
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Originally Posted by KevB View Post
So basketball was better back then, therefore any comparable player in today's game takes a back seat?
No. Basketball was different back then, and the game was played differently. The league was also better stocked with higher end talent, which meant that better players faced better players more often, and that impacts cross-era numbers, just as watering down a league through expansion does. This isn't controversial to anyone, except you and KC Connection, apparently.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:33 AM   #5118
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
ARod is an all-time great just like Gehrig was. Hard to say whether one was better than the other, they played in such vastly different eras of baseball.
I'll help you out. Gehrig was a .360 hitter in the playoffs and won 6 World Series. This OPS # you mention a million times? Gehrig's was 1.208. And that actually matters because Gehrig and ARod are supposed to be the same type of hitters. One was a big time playoff hitter, the other was not save for one season out of 9.

While you can't compare players between eras, you CAN compare playoff performance. Because they are either better/equal in the playoffs or they are markedly worse. Gehrig was markedly better in the playoffs; ARod is markedly worse in the playoffs.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:34 AM   #5119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
I specifically asked you whether you were a fan of Boston sports. You said no.
That's not what you asked me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
So you are a Boston fan in all sports, I take it.
Quit being a dumbass.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:37 AM   #5120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
That's not what you asked me.



Quit being a dumbass.
Semantics. You knew exactly what I meant and denied it anyway. Your post I cited also makes reference to you being a Patriots/Celtics/Bruins/Red Sox fan, which are the 4 major sports in this country.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:41 AM   #5121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I'll help you out. Gehrig was a .360 hitter in the playoffs and won 6 World Series. This OPS # you mention a million times? Gehrig's was 1.208. And that actually matters because Gehrig and ARod are supposed to be the same type of hitters. One was a big time playoff hitter, the other was not save for one season out of 9.

While you can't compare players between eras, you CAN compare playoff performance. Because they are either better/equal in the playoffs or they are markedly worse. Gehrig was markedly better in the playoffs; ARod is markedly worse in the playoffs.
Gehrig was great. ARod was great. As to who was the better player, it's really tough to say due to the vast difference of eras. I could make arguments for either of them quite easily.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:45 AM   #5122
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
Semantics. You knew exactly what I meant and denied it anyway. Your post I cited also makes reference to you being a Patriots/Celtics/Bruins/Red Sox fan, which are the 4 major sports in this country.
It's not semantics. You were the one trying to play games, as that idiotic

Quote:
It's not worth it. The guy's a Celtics fan who is nostalgic about Bird and old-time basketball, there will be no getting through to him on this point.
post of yours demonstrated with abundant clarity. I just answered your question honestly. You, on the other hand, are being a dishonest prick.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:47 AM   #5123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
It's not semantics. You were the one trying to play games, as that idiotic
It is. It's hilarious that you would even bother trying to hide/deny your biases like that when they are so obvious.


Quote:
post of yours demonstrated with abundant clarity. I just answered your question honestly. You, on the other hand, are being a dishonest prick.
Right on! Carry on being a Boston homer, then. Bird will clearly never be topped.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:50 AM   #5124
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
Gehrig was great. ARod was great. As to who was the better player, it's really tough to say due to the vast difference of eras. I could make arguments for either of them quite easily.
It was silly enough that you compared ARod's postseason play to Jeter's. Here you have a player in Gehrig that did it all in the playoffs from hitting an insane average, to winning 6 world series, to also hitting home runs. This is an unbelievably easy comparison. ARod was far WORSE in the playoffs than the regular season. Lou Gehrig was far BETTER in the playoffs than the regular season.

If you actually believe you can make an argument for ARod over Gehrig, then you seem to put absolutely no stock in a player's ability to deliver in the clutch.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:55 AM   #5125
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
It was silly enough that you compared ARod's postseason play to Jeter's.
No, you did that. I couldn't give two shits about ARod or Jeter. I just exposed it for the nonsensical narrative it was.

Quote:
But, the actual evidence from Jeter and Rodriguez’s postseason performances simply don’t match the storylines that have been created about them. While Jeter is lauded for his postseason play, Rodriguez is vilified. The evidence simply doesn’t support those ideas. Both are great players. Have have hit well in October. Rodriguez has just hit a bit better, especially when you account for context.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-fri...d-and-october/
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:09 AM   #5126
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
No, you did that. I couldn't give two shits about ARod or Jeter. I just exposed it for the nonsensical narrative it was.


http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-fri...d-and-october/
Yeah, if you believe that showing up 1 year and mostly sucking the other 8 or 9 playoff appearances is acceptable. You're comparing a guy who played well in the playoffs 20% of the time to one who played well 80% of the time. And that's mostly not even exaggeration.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:53 AM   #5127
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Yeah, if you believe that showing up 1 year and mostly sucking the other 8 or 9 playoff appearances is acceptable. You're comparing a guy who played well in the playoffs 20% of the time to one who played well 80% of the time. And that's mostly not even exaggeration.
More from that article (from someone who knows far more about baseball than either of us):

Quote:
By the way, just for fun, you know what Derek Jeter’s postseason Clutch score is? -1.38. Because of when his distribution of hits have come, Jeter’s actually been an offensive negative during his playoff career even with that 122 wRC+. If you’re looking for a Yankee whose postseason context-specific performance is significantly worse than his overall line would suggest, the evidence points towards Jeter, not Rodriguez.
It's fun exposing bogus narratives with facts. You should try it sometimes instead of buying into them blindly.
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Old 06-17-2014, 03:32 AM   #5128
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
More from that article (from someone who knows far more about baseball than either of us):

It's fun exposing bogus narratives with facts. You should try it sometimes instead of buying into them blindly.
1) You didn't address why it is acceptable to play one outstanding playoff, then be absolutely terrible the other 8 or 9
2) Buying into things blindly? Like relying on a "clutch statistic" that is completely unreliable with limited # of playoff at bats? In case you were wondering, you need 7,600 at bats to normalize the score (http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/inde...ll_does_exist/)
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:01 AM   #5129
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
1) You didn't address why it is acceptable to play one outstanding playoff, then be absolutely terrible the other 8 or 9
For all intents and purposes, ARod has been in the playoffs in 10 different years. He's had a playoff OPS above .800 in 5 of those 10 years (1997, 2000, 2004, 2007, and 2009), with three of the poorest years coming between 2010-2012 when he was already firmly passed his prime.

Quote:
2) Buying into things blindly? Like relying on a "clutch statistic" that is completely unreliable with limited # of playoff at bats? In case you were wondering, you need 7,600 at bats to normalize the score (http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/inde...ll_does_exist/)
If that's the truth (and you believe it), then why do would you ever continue to stress ARod's limited playoff sample size (which only amounts to 274 AB in his career) as if it is some kind of true indication of clutchness and a reason why his career should be seen as inferior to others? If it takes that many ABs (as the research suggests), then how would it have any meaning in that regard at all?

Indeed, it seems you're losing track. That article you cited from Tom Tango is contrary to everything you've been trying to argue since this all began.

Last edited by KC_Connection; 06-17-2014 at 04:13 AM..
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:09 AM   #5130
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KC Connection is going to defend Lebron no matter what.

He has made it his mission.
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