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Old 04-18-2014, 07:25 PM  
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US Has A 'Secret Exception' To Reasonable Suspicion for The No Fly List

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...fly-list.shtml

highlights below

Quote:
Over the past few months, we covered the bizarre trial concerning Rahinah Ibrahim and her attempt to get off the no fly list. In January, there was an indication that the court had ordered her removed from the list, but without details. In February, a redacted version of the ruling revealed that the whole mess was because an FBI agent read the instructions wrong on a form and accidentally placed her on the no fly list, though we noted that some of the redactions were quite odd.
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Ibrahim was actually put on multiple lists by mistake (and never for any clear reason) and was actually dropped from the no fly list years ago (though the other lists created the same effective problem in barring her from being allowed to travel to the US). The second is that the US government has a "secret exception" to the requirement that there be "reasonable suspicion" to put someone in various terrorist databases, and that secret exception was later used on Ibrahim.
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And third, that despite the implications from the redacted versions, the fully unredacted ruling shows that Ibrahim is still likely blocked from coming to the US for separate undisclosed reasons, even though the government fully admits that she is no threat.
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In order to be put into the TSDB, the government is required to show a "reasonable suspicion" that the person is a terrorist. However, what this court ruling has revealed is that there is an unexplained secret exception that allows people to be placed on the terrorist screening database even if there's no reasonable suspicion, and the government used that secret exception to put Ibrahim back on the list.
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Either way, what sort of country is this where there's a secret exception to "reasonable suspicion" that will put you on a set of secret lists that get you treated like a terrorist for wanting to travel?
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:28 PM   #2
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She should try ranching in the west.
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:31 PM   #3
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She should try ranching in the west.
she might have to get there with the help of a "brave" illegal immigrant.
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Old 04-19-2014, 02:56 PM   #4
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Does this apply to us citizens? If it does I don't care for that. If it is for non citizens I really don't cafe
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:16 PM   #5
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Does this apply to us citizens? If it does I don't care for that. If it is for non citizens I really don't cafe
Yes, it's global.
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:32 PM   #6
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Don't cafe lol.
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:03 AM   #7
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FBI ‘intentionally and unlawfully’ used No Fly List to recruit Muslims as informers

(lawsuit is alleging this. highlights below)
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One of the plaintiffs, Awais Sajjad, a lawful permanent US resident, learned that he was on a No Fly List in 2012 when he tried to board a flight to Pakistan. The FBI agents questioned Sajjad at the airport before releasing him. Soon they returned with an offer: he could work as an FBI informer and in return the agency would give him citizenship and compensation, the Washington Post reported.

When he refused, the bureau “kept him on the list in order to pressure and coerce Mr. Sajjad to sacrifice his constitutionally-protected rights,” says the lawsuit.

Meanwhile, three other complainants – Tanvir, Algibhah and Shinwari – said they were added to the list immediately after they refused to work as FBI informants for religious reasons.
Quote:
Meanwhile, the lawsuit seeks not only the plaintiffs’ removal from the no-fly list but also the establishment of a more robust legal mechanism to contest placement upon it. Meanwhile, this is not the first No Fly List-related lawsuit against the FBI. In 2010 the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) attempted to sue US Department of Justice and the FBI over their barring of American citizens, including several veterans of the US military, who ended up on the No Fly List and have been denied entry to their own country.
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:00 PM   #8
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This American Refused to Become an FBI Informant. Then the Government Made His Family's Life Hell.
(excerpts below)
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Naji first contacted me in April 2012, after I wrote a story about Yonas Fikre [5], an Oregon man who alleges that he was tortured in the United Arab Emirates after he refused to become an FBI informant. "I went through a similar ordeal," his email said.

Fikre's story fit a familiar pattern in which US citizens suspected of (often tangential) ties to terrorism were detained and questioned abroad by foreign security services—with evidence suggesting that American authorities orchestrated the detentions. This wasn't rendition, the controversial practice in which the CIA has shipped foreign nationals to allied countries where they were abused and tortured. Instead, American citizens were locked up abroad and interrogated by US agents in a manner that seemed designed to bypass their constitutional rights. Human rights advocates and civil libertarians have dubbed this practice "proxy detention."

The FBI acknowledges that foreign governments sometimes arrest Americans based on information the bureau provides. Here's how one FBI source explained it to me: If a guy the Saudi government suspected of terrorism traveled to the United States, we'd want to know. So it's only fair that we tip off the Saudis—or the Yemenis, Sudanese, or Egyptians—when an American suspected of terrorist ties enters their country.

What the bureau doesn't say is that since counterterrorism forces in many countries are funded and trained by the United States, the FBI's suggestions can sound a lot like orders—even when the suspects involved have never been charged with any crime.

"Often it has been US officials who do the real questioning, and sometimes the prisoners have been tortured and abused" by their foreign captors, says Hina Shamsi, an American Civil Liberties Union lawyer who works on the issue. "Unlawful detention and cruel treatment is wrong when the US government does it, and it's just as wrong if the United States asks another government to do it."
Quote:
It's not hard to see why the US government would view Naji as an ideal informant. He is religious, conservative, and speaks English and Arabic. He's calm under pressure. He had crisscrossed the globe as a volunteer escort for refugees being resettled through the International Organization for Migration. When he traveled, he went to mosques and counted on the hospitality of strangers to find a bed for the night, and through this he had made connections with dozens of other religious Muslim men around the world.

This is precisely the kind of community that the FBI is trying to track and infiltrate. The bureau's network of paid informants has expanded rapidly since 9/11, and now includes more than 15,000, rivaling the scale of the J. Edgar Hoover era. A guy like Naji—an expatriate working in countries where terrorists operate—would be a real catch.
But to someone not facing criminal charges, the FBI doesn't have much to offer by way of enticement.

"The problem for many American Muslims who have been approached by the FBI to become informants is that they aren't involved in criminal conspiracies and don't have relationships with criminals," says Mike German, an ex-FBI agent who now works for the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University. "Instead, they are being asked to spy broadly against their religious community. That creates a conundrum because the person may be perfectly willing to help the FBI fight terrorism but simply has no information to provide."
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A former US diplomat who was stationed in Juba at the time told me that US officials there spoke openly of Naji's detainment and said he would be freed if he cooperated with the FBI.
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guards escorted Naji into an interrogation room. Soon, a blond State Department official entered.

"Do you remember Mike Jones—you met him in Nairobi?" she asked.

"Yeah," Naji replied.

"Would you be willing to see him?" the diplomat inquired. That was fine by him, Naji said, and to his surprise Jones and another FBI agent, Peter Smith (whose real name also has been withheld at the FBI's request), strolled in moments later. Smith said he believed that Naji had done nothing wrong and wasn't involved with terrorism, but told him that the FBI needed Naji to tell them something useful so they could advocate on his behalf with the Sudanese. "Quid pro quo, Naji. Quid pro quo," Jones chimed in.
Quote:
The FBI refused to comment on the bureau's attempt to recruit Naji as an informant, nor would it comment on his taped conversations with Jones and Smith or whether any misconduct on their part had occurred.
Quote:
Sudan, Naji told me, had become his prison. He felt trapped and helpless. He was no longer welcome in Kenya, and he feared what might happen if he set foot outside Sudan, believing he might be detained—and possibly tortured—at the behest of the US government. The experience "made me scared of traveling," Naji said. "What happens if I go to a US-friendly country or pass through a US-friendly country?"
Quote:
Though he spent much of his life abroad, Naji had never doubted his rights as an American citizen. But the experience with the FBI had made him deeply distrustful of his government. "Every time I try to cooperate with the FBI, I get deeper into shit. I'm a citizen. They're supposed to have my back, and it's the exact opposite. You shouldn't expect this from the beacon of democracy."
for those wondering what this has to do with the topic of this thread, the article explains instances in which the "no fly list" was used against the person in this story as well as his extended family to harass him and try to get him to become an FBI informant.
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:00 PM   #9
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No-Fly List Appeals System Declared Unconstitutional; No-Fly is No Fair
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People on the government’s no-fly list are denied their constitutional right to due process, because the government’s procedures to challenge inclusion on the secretive roster are “wholly ineffective,” U.S. District Judge Anna Brown declared in a case brought by thirteen American citizens and supported by the ACLU.

Important: The court did not declare the no-fly list itself unconstitutional per se, but did say that the lack of any effective system for knowing you are on the list (absent showing up at the airport and being denied boarding) and especially the lack of any real procedure for trying to clear your name and get off the list, are unconstitutional under the Fifth Amendment, as they deny people the Constitutional right to due process. Due process basically means the government cannot punish you, or take something away from you, without giving you the right to challenge that decision, typically in court with a lawyer.

Specifically, in a 65-page opinion, the Oregon judge ordered the government to come up with a new way for the thirteen plaintiffs to contest their inclusion on the no-fly list that prohibits them from flying in or through U.S. airspace. The government must provide notice to the plaintiffs that they are on the list and give the reasons for their inclusion. The judge also ordered that the government allow the plaintiffs to submit evidence to refute the government’s suspicions.
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:57 AM   #10
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Terrorist database continues to grow at rapid rate
(highlights)
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The government is rapidly expanding the number of names it accepts for inclusion on its terrorist watch list, with more than 1.5 million added in the last five years, according to numbers divulged by the government in a civil lawsuit.

About 99 percent of the names submitted are accepted, leading to criticism that the government is "wildly loose" in its use of the list.

It has been known for years that the government became more aggressive in nominating people for the watch list following al-Qaida operative Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's failed effort to blow up an airplane over Detroit on Christmas Day 2009.

But the numbers disclosed by the government show submissions have snowballed. In fiscal 2009, which ended Sept. 30, 2009, 227,932 names were nominated to the database. In fiscal 2010, which includes the months after the attempted Christmas bombing, nominations rose to 250,847. In fiscal 2012, they increased to 336,712, and in fiscal 2013 — the most recent year provided — nominations jumped to 468,749.

The government disclosed the figures in a civil lawsuit out of Virginia challenging the constitutionality of the no-fly list.

Gadeir Abbas, a lawyer for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, which filed the suit on behalf of a northern Virginia man, said the numbers show the government is failing to abide by the standards required for inclusion, which require "a reasonable suspicion to believe that a person is a known or a suspected terrorist."

"There aren't 1 million people who are known or suspected terrorists
," Abbas said after the hearing. "This suggests the standard the government is applying is wildly loose."

In Friday's hearing, though, Abbas argued that the process the government uses to evaluate who should be on the list is opaque, and that people who find themselves on it never receive an explanation or a meaningful way to get removed.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:34 PM   #11
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Blacklisted: The Secret Government Rulebook For Labeling You a Terrorist
(highlights)
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The Obama administration has quietly approved a substantial expansion of the terrorist watchlist system, authorizing a secret process that requires neither “concrete facts” nor “irrefutable evidence” to designate an American or foreigner as a terrorist, according to a key government document obtained by The Intercept.

“Instead of a watchlist limited to actual, known terrorists, the government has built a vast system based on the unproven and flawed premise that it can predict if a person will commit a terrorist act in the future,” says Hina Shamsi, the head of the ACLU’s National Security Project. “On that dangerous theory, the government is secretly blacklisting people as suspected terrorists and giving them the impossible task of proving themselves innocent of a threat they haven’t carried out.” Shamsi, who reviewed the document, added, “These criteria should never have been kept secret.”

The document’s definition of “terrorist” activity includes actions that fall far short of bombing or hijacking. In addition to expected crimes, such as assassination or hostage-taking, the guidelines also define destruction of government property and damaging computers used by financial institutions as activities meriting placement on a list. They also define as terrorism any act that is “dangerous” to property and intended to influence government policy through intimidation.
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This combination—a broad definition of what constitutes terrorism and a low threshold for designating someone a terrorist—opens the way to ensnaring innocent people in secret government dragnets. It can also be counterproductive. When resources are devoted to tracking people who are not genuine risks to national security, the actual threats get fewer resources—and might go unnoticed.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:48 PM   #12
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Again. If you give government a power it will be abused most often to the detriment of the citizenry.
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:19 AM   #13
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OR - you could have an educated, well-informed, engaged citizenry that votes to keep government power in check where needed, and applied where needed - like most well-run European democracies - particularly Scandinavia.

Or you can go the FoxNews route like us and keep everyone distracted by Obamaphones while their government and big business rob them blind.

Choices...
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:25 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
OR - you could have an educated, well-informed, engaged citizenry that votes to keep government power in check where needed, and applied where needed - like most well-run European democracies - particularly Scandinavia.

Or you can go the FoxNews route like us and keep everyone distracted by Obamaphones while their government and big business rob them blind.

Choices...
All of this stuff happened under Bush and Obama stopped it. Thank God for a well educated and informed voter base. Imagine if Bush was still in we would have the Govt spying on us, getting our phone records, internet activity...Im talking serious stuff. Thanks Obama
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:49 PM   #15
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All of this stuff happened under Bush and Obama stopped it. Thank God for a well educated and informed voter base. Imagine if Bush was still in we would have the Govt spying on us, getting our phone records, internet activity...Im talking serious stuff. Thanks Obama
why are you such a partisan shill? You obviously know that both Bush and Obama have been doing such things. What benefit do you have to keep shilling for one side of a worthless coin (i.e. both sides are bad/worthless) ?
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