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Old 05-07-2014, 06:16 AM  
oldandslow oldandslow is offline
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Tea Party loses primary in NC

Thom Tillis, from the establishment GOP beats the TP...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/06/politi...html?hpt=hp_t2

My guess is the TP doesn't win a single senate primary this go round. The GOP learned its lesson last time with the likes of Aiken et al and will select establishment candidates in the attempt to take back the Senate. They may succeed.
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:52 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
If the rest of the primaries go this way, this is actually pretty good news for the country. Maybe now Republicans will be slightly less terrified of getting primaried, and have some incentive to work on bipartisan initiatives in Congress.
This is why the Tea party came to exist. Bipartisanship has only worked to grow the federal government, thus increasing its inefficiency and propensity for corruption. It's too large and devoid of accountability to work in a reliable, efficient manner.

This is not a 'get rid of all government' stance. It is a realization that there are actully somethings that a free people can do on their own without Big Brother's 'help'. And many of the other things that do require government would work much more effectively at the state or local level where those initiatives would make sense for that particular region of the country.

Bipartisanship? Bleeechh. Until I see an instance of a bipartisan move to downsize Washington's power grab, 'bipartisan' is a dirty word to me.
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:56 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by donkhater View Post
This is why the Tea party came to exist. Bipartisanship has only worked to grow the federal government, thus increasing its inefficiency and propensity for corruption. It's too large and devoid of accountability to work in a reliable, efficient manner.

This is not a 'get rid of all government' stance. It is a realization that there are actully somethings that a free people can do on their own without Big Brother's 'help'. And many of the other things that do require government would work much more effectively at the state or local level where those initiatives would make sense for that particular region of the country.

Bipartisanship? Bleeechh. Until I see an instance of a bipartisan move to downsize Washington's power grab, 'bipartisan' is a dirty word to me.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:15 AM   #48
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:24 AM   #49
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I'll add one other tidbit.

Bipartisanship is a pipedream. The political class on both sides stoke the issues to create passion tha leads to donations to their political campaigns. If true bipartisanship existed, there really wouldn't be much of a motivation for the average voter (or billionaire) to donate the massive amounts of money into our political system.

The left derides the Citizens vs. United case as the end of the world, but the huge impact from that decision would be vastly minimalized if Washington didn't oversee as much as it does---NEEDLESSLY.

Look at Keystone. The right bangs on about jobs and energy independance, the left has their enviromental and alternative energy platforms. Both sides are milking it for all it's worth, extorting political favors.

There is WAY less money to be had by our ruling class for bipartisanship to make sense.

The Tea Party is hated by the left AND the right of our political system because it seeks to pull back power from Washington.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:33 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You're thinking of the word "dictator".

I'm not sure if they decided beforehand that there would be no good-faith effort or not, but if they did, it serves the democrats right for the bad faith they demonstrated for the previous 6 years.
This mindset is why nothing ever changes.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:49 AM   #51
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This mindset is why nothing ever changes.
OK. I'd rather nothing change than have Republicans give the current crop of democrats unfettered control of our government.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:04 AM   #52
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http://www.politico.com/story/2014/0...473.html?hp=t1

Yeah, keep dreaming about bipartisanship.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:26 AM   #53
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Has Suzzer named any ways the Democrats "work with" Republicans? I'm trying to find any but I can't. I did notice when they had full control from 2009-2011, they didn't even acknowledge the other party (or its 50 million supporters) even f-ing existed.


Democrats love bipartisanship but not when they have full power. Only when they're out of power does it become important. Amazing factoid.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:30 AM   #54
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I already offered you three examples that again you handwaved away and posted something about Pelosi being a dumbass, which no one has ever denied.

I realize that your impression from 2009–2011 is that the Democrats offered nothing to Republicans because you get all your impressions from this forum and talk radio. But that's simply not the case. All during the Obamacare debates, Obama kept reaching out to try to get some Republican support on anything. They put port reform on the table, they put regulations on the table that weakened unions. Olympia Snow got threatened to be blackballed for even talking to Democrats.

During the first debt ceiling debate, Obama offered 10 to 1 tax increases on the wealthy to entitlement cuts. Republicans wanted none of it. They simply are not willing to give him a perceived victory on anything.

Please show me the Democratic equivalent of the Hastert Rule or the Grover Norquist pledge.

They were even against the payroll tax cut because it made Obama look good. That is some serious through the looking glass shit. And you guys were all for it, because you're all about "go team" and nothing else. Even if it cost you money out of your own pockets. Mind boggling.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:37 AM   #55
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You were asked what issues the Democrats put aside their own goals to find common ground with the GOP. Obamacare and Amnesty aren't things the GOP wants even slightly. So no: you provided jack squat.



Find some issue where the Dems actually were willing to upset their own base. The Iraq War vote of 2002 is an example. Extending the Bush tax cuts in 2010 is another. Confirming Roberts with little dissent.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:00 AM   #56
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What do you think offering tort reform or terms that unions aren't going to like to Obamacare are? That IS the democrat base. How about McConnel's quote or the steakhouse meeting with this quote - “If he was for it,” former Ohio Senator George Voinovich explained, “we had to be against it.” - which no one has really denied?

You keep demanding ever increasing levels of detail from me, and all you have supplied is your general feelings that democrats are unwilling to compromise. Your turn now. Please show me some evidence where republicans might have been willing to compromise and democrats weren't.

Republicans like to box themselves into a corner with self-applied unbreakable rules like the Norquist Pledge and Hastert rule, then claim the democrats won't meet them halfway.

How about this metric?



All Obama's fault for being so mendacious and arrogant I'm sure.

If you laid out both sides actions and words over the last 5 years to a completely neutral observer, which side do you really think they would see as being less willing to compromise? So far the only arguments I've heard from you and patty are complete non-factual assertions like "Obama is the most divisive president of my lifetime". While I'm sure that plays great to the froth base, you're not going to sell hollow rhetoric like that to anyone who actually cares about seeing evidence.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:02 AM   #57
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I'm in agreement with you that the GOP doesn't compromise. I don't make up nonsensical arguments pretending they do. Get it? Follow my drift?
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:46 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
OK. I'd rather nothing change than have Republicans give the current crop of democrats unfettered control of our government.
in what way is negotiation and compromise unfettered control of our government?

spare me the dems don't want to compromise line please...
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:03 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
in what way is negotiation and compromise unfettered control of our government?

spare me the dems don't want to compromise line please...
What kind of compromises do you think democrats want?
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:37 PM   #60
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OK. I'd rather nothing change than have Republicans give the current crop of democrats unfettered control of our government.
I'm familiar with the mindset. I just think it's rather unproductive to approach governing the people with the attitude that if the other party is in charge, we'd rather nothing get done than let them lead the way.
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