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Old 05-07-2014, 07:16 AM  
oldandslow oldandslow is offline
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Tea Party loses primary in NC

Thom Tillis, from the establishment GOP beats the TP...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/06/politi...html?hpt=hp_t2

My guess is the TP doesn't win a single senate primary this go round. The GOP learned its lesson last time with the likes of Aiken et al and will select establishment candidates in the attempt to take back the Senate. They may succeed.
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:15 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by stonedstooge View Post
When asked about including the Republican ideas for ObamaCare before it passed Obama's Chief of Staff Rahm Emanual said "**** them, we don't need them". Guess he was reaching across the aisle
WHAT republican ideas for Obamacare? Please feel free to list them. This should be good.
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:16 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
You're just as guilty of cognitive dissonance as anyone in this forum.
Feel free to point out any examples you feel I show cognitive dissonance and explain why.
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:28 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Feel free to point out any examples you feel I show cognitive dissonance and explain why.
Let's start with Obamacare. From what I've read of your posts you want health care available to every American. Am I right?
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:47 PM   #79
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Yeah I think that if we're not going to let people die in the streets, which means we're already paying for everyone's most expensive (life and limb saving) of medical care anyway--just in the most inefficient way possible, by having it tacked on to the pricing structure of the people who can pay--then something like the NHS in England, or Canada's system makes the most sense.

Hell anything makes more sense than the taxpayer-subsidized pre-Obamacare mess we had before - where we take care of the very poor, and the old, but leave completely stranded the working poor and others who don't happen to have or be married to someone with good group insurance.

I think we should just look at healthcare the same way we look at a "free" K-12 education. Every other developed country treats health care as a basic citizen's right. But for some reason the richest country on earth can't pull it off? It seems like a massive no-brainer to me to follow suit, given that very few people think our health care status quo is (was) ideal. Obamacare is far from ideal, but I still believe very strongly that it's a step in the right direction.

That's why I really didn't want republicans to win in 2012, although I kind of doubt they actually would have repealed it anyway. I mean it was their own idea to begin with. They probably would have just changed a few cosmetic things and called it their own. FoxNews would have turned on the propaganda spigot and this forum would be singing the praises of RomneyCare - National Edition.

In 2016 except for getting idiots like Scalia off the SCOTUS, I don't have nearly as much dog in the fight. I could definitely be swayed to vote for someone like Huntsman who actually doesn't come off as a nutbag, which of course means he has no chance to get out of the republican primaries. Jeb Bush doesn't seem that horrible. If he wins I'm not going to be depressed about it. I would worry about having round 3 of the neocon advisor court though. The Bushes can't seem to stay out of Middle East wars. I would have been ok with McCain if not for Palin. I'd campaign for Arnie if he could ever run.

I know you guys don't believe me but I really just want republicans to come back from around the bend. The whole country works better.

Does that answer your question

Last edited by suzzer99; 05-08-2014 at 07:01 PM..
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:29 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Yeah I think that if we're not going to let people die in the streets, which means we're already paying for everyone's most expensive (life and limb saving) of medical care anyway--just in the most inefficient way possible, by having it tacked on to the pricing structure of the people who can pay--then something like the NHS in England, or Canada's system makes the most sense.

Hell anything makes more sense than the taxpayer-subsidized pre-Obamacare mess we had before - where we take care of the very poor, and the old, but leave completely stranded the working poor and others who don't happen to have or be married to someone with good group insurance.

I think we should just look at healthcare the same way we look at a "free" K-12 education. Every other developed country treats health care as a basic citizen's right. But for some reason the richest country on earth can't pull it off? It seems like a massive no-brainer to me to follow suit, given that very few people think our health care status quo is (was) ideal. Obamacare is far from ideal, but I still believe very strongly that it's a step in the right direction.

That's why I really didn't want republicans to win in 2012, although I kind of doubt they actually would have repealed it anyway. I mean it was their own idea to begin with. They probably would have just changed a few cosmetic things and called it their own. FoxNews would have turned on the propaganda spigot and this forum would be singing the praises of RomneyCare - National Edition.

In 2016 except for getting idiots like Scalia off the SCOTUS, I don't have nearly as much dog in the fight. I could definitely be swayed to vote for someone like Huntsman who actually doesn't come off as a nutbag, which of course means he has no chance to get out of the republican primaries. Jeb Bush doesn't seem that horrible. If he wins I'm not going to be depressed about it. I would worry about having round 3 of the neocon advisor court though. The Bushes can't seem to stay out of Middle East wars. I would have been ok with McCain if not for Palin. I'd campaign for Arnie if he could ever run.

I know you guys don't believe me but I really just want republicans to come back from around the bend. The whole country works better.

Does that answer your question
Ok, so you approve of Obamacare. Do you agree with how it was sold to the public? Obama himself repeatedly lying to the public? i.e, what it would cost, how much a family would save, keeping your doctor, keeping your plan, etc. The entire Democratic regime sold the public on that. Since it is evident they all lied on the plan are you ok with that?
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:53 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Your question didn't make sense to me. I'm not the one who connected negotiation and compromise to unfettered control. Unfettered control is control without compromise, see Obamacare for an example.
obamacare being passed is old news...

since then, what unfettered control by the dems has there been?

hell, what control of any kind have they had since the repubs won the house?

other than harry reid of course...
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:55 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by jjjayb View Post
And how many house bills has the senate taken up?
and how many house bills have been the result of negotiation and compromise with the dems in the house?
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:43 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
obamacare being passed is old news...

since then, what unfettered control by the dems has there been?

hell, what control of any kind have they had since the repubs won the house?

other than harry reid of course...
None, because the House Republicans won't let them have it anymore, which is fantastic as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:46 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
and how many house bills have been the result of negotiation and compromise with the dems in the house?
There's really nothing new about the way the House operates. They weren't very cooperative with Bush when the democrats took control in 2006. The only times you'll see the House cooperate with a POTUS from the other party is if (a) the President gives them something they really want or (b) they're forced to by public opinion and fear of the next election. So far, the Republican House has had the public on it's side in their unwillingness to cave to Obama largely because Obama mishandled his period of unfettered power.
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Old 05-09-2014, 12:36 AM   #85
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To Pat's point, it's pretty obvious the electorate doesn't want the Democrats having full power or having te GOP agree with their policies. If you don't like the GOP don't blame them, blame the electorate. Blame me not John Boehner.
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Old 05-09-2014, 03:46 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldandslow View Post
Thom Tillis, from the establishment GOP beats the TP...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/06/politi...html?hpt=hp_t2

My guess is the TP doesn't win a single senate primary this go round. The GOP learned its lesson last time with the likes of Aiken et al and will select establishment candidates in the attempt to take back the Senate. They may succeed.
I voted Brannon but we got yet another Republicrat.... Yes I will vote for the Karl Rove Checked Pants Republicrat
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:34 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by oldandslow View Post
Thom Tillis, from the establishment GOP beats the TP...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/06/politi...html?hpt=hp_t2

My guess is the TP doesn't win a single senate primary this go round. The GOP learned its lesson last time with the likes of Aiken et al and will select establishment candidates in the attempt to take back the Senate. They may succeed.
Aiken WAS the establishment choice, he was just an establishment candidate out of his depth. He'd been in state office for decades.

Weirdly I have a suspicion that he provided me and a couple teammates sleeping quarters on a HS soccer trip to St. Louis. The name Aiken sounds familiar and he represents the area where we played other High Schools. But I didn't pay much attention to the parents, outside the back of their heads in the minivan.
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:39 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
How about taking the republicans own idea for Obamacare and offering it to them?
That is such a trope, 'republican's own idea' was the most conciliatory Republicans desperation compromise to stave off single payer Hilary was pushing through.

It's like a robber demanding all your money and you pleading for a little money to feed your family. Then the cops nap him. Then he comes back later to rob you again, but you should be amenable because he'll take the lesser amount that was your idea in the first place.
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:29 AM   #89
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That is such a trope, 'republican's own idea' was the most conciliatory Republicans desperation compromise to stave off single payer Hilary was pushing through.

It's like a robber demanding all your money and you pleading for a little money to feed your family. Then the cops nap him. Then he comes back later to rob you again, but you should be amenable because he'll take the lesser amount that was your idea in the first place.
Not only that, but it matters a lot what details are added to the core mechanisms that Obamacare and the Heritage plan have in common.
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Old 05-10-2014, 01:59 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldandslow View Post
Thom Tillis, from the establishment GOP beats the TP...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/06/politi...html?hpt=hp_t2

My guess is the TP doesn't win a single senate primary this go round. The GOP learned its lesson last time with the likes of Aiken et al and will select establishment candidates in the attempt to take back the Senate. They may succeed.
Well, all the GOP leadership ever needed to so with these guys is train them how to be a candidate. It's more likely they didn't and won't because they're just as socialist ( aka progressive) as some Democrats. Meanwhile, there's probably just as much dirt or weird stuff you can drag out of the closet on some of the "acceptable" mainstream or moderate Republicans if they wanted to take 'em down. That's how politics is played--dirty. Expose the ones who are more in tune with Americanism.

How un-American both parties are. ( not the dirty politics part 'cause that's everywhere but the values of the statist GOP. BTW, that's the largely the wing that did the dirty stuff to the Indians too. )
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