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Old 05-07-2014, 06:22 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Meanshile, the IRS scandal is heating up...

Washington Post: There are plenty of smidgens in the IRS scandal
BY ED ROGERS

Today, the House Rules Committee is considering a resolution recommending that former IRS official Lois Lerner be held in contempt for refusing to answer questions about her role in the IRS targeting of President Obama’s political opponents. It is likely that the resolution will pass, and then it will come to the floor for a full vote in the House. When it does, the vote to hold Lerner in contempt should be bipartisan – if not unanimous. Any Democrats who vote “no” should be labeled as enablers of obstruction of justice. It should be impossible for Democrats to defend a vote that could only serve to encourage more corruption and non-cooperation in the future. Of course Lerner had the right to plead the fifth, but that doesn’t mean Democrats should not pay a price for voting to bless her stonewalling.

In an interview with Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly in February, President Obama pre-empted his own Department of Justice investigation and declared that there was not a “smidgen of corruption” in the IRS scandal. Well, I think a senior official at the center of the allegations pleading the fifth constitutes a smidgen. It is not unfair to draw logical inferences from her continued refusal to cooperate with the investigation into the IRS targeting of conservative groups. To the best of my knowledge, no one in this White House has ever called on Lerner to cooperate. Why? Because they know it is not in their interest for her to cooperate. They hope she will continue her silence in comfortable retirement and that Republicans and the media will be intimidated into giving up. Or, at the very least, they hope they can run out the clock on the remainder of Obama’s term.

Meanwhile, at the Justice Department, the White House has built a firewall by appointing Obama donor Barbara Bosserman to head the investigation into the IRS affair. No smidgens here folks. Move along, nothing to see. Please. Someone in this Administration is guilty of manipulating the IRS – or, is guilty of knowing that the IRS was engaging in activities that targeted the president’s political opponents. There are smidgens lying all over the place.

The very idea that the administration would protect someone who is hiding behind the fifth when there is not only smoke, but there is actually a clear glow of flames, is insulting. The 2014 election should be about the economy and Obamacare. We don’t need to keep adding exclamation points to every new Benghazi revelation. But at least the IRS scandal is related to the two election issues that really matter. The whole IRS debacle should be a bottomless pit of outrage, demands, select committees and whatever else from Republicans in Congress.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...e-irs-scandal/
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:30 PM   #2
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Via The Washington Post:
On a 231 to 187 vote, the House approved a contempt citation against Lois G. Lerner, whose admission last year that the tax-enforcement agency had targeted conservative groups infuriated lawmakers in both parties, led to an overhaul of the IRS and Lerner’s eventual retirement from government service.

Now the matter will be referred to the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia. The contempt charge will then be referred to a grand jury for further review, but it is unclear how the Justice Department will proceed. Politically, however, House Republicans will be able to declare victory after working swiftly in the last year to investigate the matter and hold a senior IRS official accountable for the agency’s decision and her unwillingness to cooperate with a congressional investigation.

If ever convicted, Lerner could face between one and 12 months in jail and a fine of up to $100,000.
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:58 PM   #3
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:06 PM   #4
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:10 PM   #5
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Via The Washington Post:
On a 231 to 187 vote, the House approved a contempt citation against Lois G. Lerner, whose admission last year that the tax-enforcement agency had targeted conservative groups infuriated lawmakers in both parties, led to an overhaul of the IRS and Lerner’s eventual retirement from government service.

Now the matter will be referred to the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia. The contempt charge will then be referred to a grand jury for further review, but it is unclear how the Justice Department will proceed. Politically, however, House Republicans will be able to declare victory after working swiftly in the last year to investigate the matter and hold a senior IRS official accountable for the agency’s decision and her unwillingness to cooperate with a congressional investigation.

If ever convicted, Lerner could face between one and 12 months in jail and a fine of up to $100,000.
Hey all you rabid Constitution defenders out there--I'm looking forward to reading your posts of outrage as the House puts politics above the Constitution and recommends punishment for someone exercising a constitutional right.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:20 PM   #7
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Hey all you rabid Constitution defenders out there--I'm looking forward to reading your posts of outrage as the House puts politics above the Constitution and recommends punishment for someone exercising a constitutional right.
Are you now admitting that the IRS targeted conservative groups?
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:46 PM   #9
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:35 PM   #10
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:41 PM   #11
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Are you now admitting that the IRS targeted conservative groups?
I only 'know' what I've read--which is that a lot of these 501whatever groups received extra scrutiny which included mostly, but not solely, conservative groups. Not sure what that has to do with my post. She invoked the 5th as is her right. That may be frustrating to many, but it is her right, and to champion constitution rights while endorsing punishment for her is pretty damn hypocritical.
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Old 05-07-2014, 10:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I only 'know' what I've read--which is that a lot of these 501whatever groups received extra scrutiny which included mostly, but not solely, conservative groups. Not sure what that has to do with my post. She invoked the 5th as is her right. That may be frustrating to many, but it is her right, and to champion constitution rights while endorsing punishment for her is pretty damn hypocritical.
And off it will go to the courts to decide if she waived that right. Will the Courts go with Mitchell vs. US or McCarthy vs. Arndstein.
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Old 05-07-2014, 10:14 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mojo Jojo View Post
And off it will go to the courts to decide if she waived that right. Will the Courts go with Mitchell vs. US or McCarthy vs. Arndstein.
The holding of Mitchell v. US, according to wikipeida:
A guilty plea is not also a waiver of the Fifth Amendment privilege at sentencing. Further, the trial court may not draw adverse inference if the defendant is silent during consideration of the facts bearing upon the severity of the sentence.

This doesn't seem relevant at all.

McCarthy vs. Arndstein just says the 5th may be invoked in a civil proceedings, and that's not at issue either.

I've already looked this stuff up and I'm not doing it again, but you waive by giving testimony--answering questions. Making an opening statement or saying "not guilty" isn't testimony. Even giving basic info in testimony--name, date of birth, etc. then invoking is not waiving. It isn't a close call and they know it.
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Old 05-07-2014, 10:38 PM   #14
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I would think the words not guilty, would qualify as testimony
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Old 05-07-2014, 10:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
The holding of Mitchell v. US, according to wikipeida:
A guilty plea is not also a waiver of the Fifth Amendment privilege at sentencing. Further, the trial court may not draw adverse inference if the defendant is silent during consideration of the facts bearing upon the severity of the sentence.

This doesn't seem relevant at all.

McCarthy vs. Arndstein just says the 5th may be invoked in a civil proceedings, and that's not at issue either.

I've already looked this stuff up and I'm not doing it again, but you waive by giving testimony--answering questions. Making an opening statement or saying "not guilty" isn't testimony. Even giving basic info in testimony--name, date of birth, etc. then invoking is not waiving. It isn't a close call and they know it.
You need to go further into Mitchell...
It is well established that a witness, in a single proceeding, may not testify voluntarily about a subject and then invoke the privilege against self-incrimination when questioned about the details. See Rogers v. United States, 340 U.S. 367, 373 (1951).
The question before the court will be after being sworn in and making a claim of not guilty voluntarily...is that testimony.
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