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Old 05-10-2014, 01:03 PM  
Count Alex's Losses Count Alex's Losses is online now
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Should the minimum wage be raised to $20/hr?

Seems like that would provided everyone with a comfortable living.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...e1-2012-03.pdf

Quote:
Using wages as a benchmark, in 1968 the federal minimum stood at 53 percent of the average production worker earnings. During much of the
1960s, the minimum wage was close to 50 percent of the same wage
benchmark. If the minimum wage were at 50 percent of the production
worker wage in 2012 (again, using CBO projections to produce a full-year
2012 estimate), the federal minimum would be $10.01 per hour.

A final benchmark for the minimum wage is productivity growth. Figure
2 below compares growth in average labor productivity with the real
value of the minimum wage between the late 1940s and the end of the
last decade. Between the end of World War II and 1968, the minimum
wage tracked average productivity growth fairly closely.

Since 1968, however, productivity growth has far outpaced the minimum wage. If the minimum wage had continued to move with average productivity after 1968, it would have reached $21.72 per hour in 2012 – a rate well above the average production worker wage. If minimum-wage workers received only half of the productivity gains over the period, the federal minimum would be $15.34. Even if the minimum wage only grew at one-fourth the rate of productivity, in 2012 it would be set at $12.25.
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:06 PM   #136
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Let's see the revolution in economics started in the 1930's with Keynes and we still practice it--despite it being nearly 44 years old. This is Ute's argument for the workability of an economic system.

Time to change things Ute--the govt is broke and dollar has lost most of its value. Doesn't buy what it used to.
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:49 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lzen View Post
No, progressives in general do not seem to understand simple supply and demand economics.
Anyone who claims to understand supple and demand, but thinks prices will skyrocket because of increase in the minimum wage has zero understanding of how demand affects prices.

What happens to a demand for a good if the price increases past market tolarance?

Hint, it goes down. The last thing a company will do is purposely lower demand for their product.
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:51 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by loochy View Post
Please see Loneiguana's analysis. The price of Quarter pounders would not change because companies would just eat the extra cost of labor. Businesses don't care about making money. They only exist so people with few skills and little education can have a job.
Businesses care about making money so they will knowingly decrease demand for their product.

-- conservatives who don't understand supply and demand.
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:52 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Speaking of predictions, has the liberal war on poverty succeeded yet? It's only been 50 years so far.
Hard for poverty to dwindle when you stagnate wages for 30 years.
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:55 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The US consumer market is shrinking relative to the global market. At the same time, foreign producers are becoming stiffer competition for American producers. The key to having a strong economy in the future is to have competitive producers who can out-compete their foreign counterparts for the global consumer market, not to artificially ramp up domestic consumption (a large fraction of which is captured by foreign producers anyway).
Which doesn't work without consumers to buy those products.

Hence consumer/demand base economy.

Doesn't do any good for America to make anything if no one can buy anything.
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:57 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Pshaw, it wouldn’t cause inflation. Business owners would just eat the extra cost of operating out of the goodness in their hearts.
Please provide your citation for the amount of inflation following past minimum wage increases.

This is pure fear mongering.
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:12 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Please provide your citation for the amount of inflation following past minimum wage increases.

This is pure fear mongering.
Past increases in the minimum wage have been in small increments. We are talking about more than doubling the minimum wage. If you double the labor cost for any business, they will pass at least a portion of those costs onto their customers.
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:26 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Hard for poverty to dwindle when you stagnate wages for 30 years.
So you agree that the 50 year war on poverty has been a failure then?
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:29 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Which doesn't work without consumers to buy those products.

Hence consumer/demand base economy.

Doesn't do any good for America to make anything if no one can buy anything.
The points that apparently escaped your attention are that the consumers are now all over the globe (not just in the US) and that US consumers consume products made all over the globe (not just US products). Time for a paradigm shift. Your 1950s thinking is obsolete.
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:42 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Anyone who claims to understand supple and demand, but thinks prices will skyrocket because of increase in the minimum wage has zero understanding of how demand affects prices.

What happens to a demand for a good if the price increases past market tolarance?

Hint, it goes down. The last thing a company will do is purposely lower demand for their product.
Uh! You're the one who hasn't a clue about supply and demand. Your's is a commie understanding because you think you own their property and think you can anticipate what an owner would do to stay in business. It just may not be worth it to remain in business is another option. You guys make going on the dole seem more attractive every day--what you ultimately want anyway.
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:44 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf View Post
Past increases in the minimum wage have been in small increments. We are talking about more than doubling the minimum wage. If you double the labor cost for any business, they will pass at least a portion of those costs onto their customers.
No body is talking about doubling the minimum wage except the workers who make that wage, and they can bargain for whatever they want with their employer.

Minimum wage proposals are for a 10.10 or something minimum wage.

And no matter what the wage is, prices will not increase dramatically, unless market tolerance for that good will also increase.

All companies that pay minimum wage will see their cost go up if it is raised. You decided to pass that on to consumers. Your competitor does not. Your demand goes down, your competitor goes up. Who do think will make more money, despite increase in wages?

They only reason a minimum wage increase will increase prices is because a minimum wage increase will increase demand. Increases in demand lead to increases in prices... but never past market tolerance.
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:47 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
So you agree that the 50 year war on poverty has been a failure then?
What's your definition of failure? The fact there is still poverty?

Or measure of living standard?

Useless thread jack is useless.

/stagnate wages for 30 years, complain there is still poverty.
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:49 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The points that apparently escaped your attention are that the consumers are now all over the globe (not just in the US) and that US consumers consume products made all over the globe (not just US products). Time for a paradigm shift. Your 1950s thinking is obsolete.
And you need to understand that companies only invest and make products when there is a DEMAND for products.

Demand is consumers. Without consumers there is no demand. Demand is first and foremost the biggest need in a capitalist society.

You supply side thinking is wrong.
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:49 PM   #149
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:49 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Uh! You're the one who hasn't a clue about supply and demand. Your's is a commie understanding because you think you own their property and think you can anticipate what an owner would do to stay in business. It just may not be worth it to remain in business is another option. You guys make going on the dole seem more attractive every day--what you ultimately want anyway.
Demand side policies aren't commie BEP.

Grow up.
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