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Old 05-10-2014, 12:03 PM  
Claynus Claynus is offline
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Should the minimum wage be raised to $20/hr?

Seems like that would provided everyone with a comfortable living.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...e1-2012-03.pdf

Quote:
Using wages as a benchmark, in 1968 the federal minimum stood at 53 percent of the average production worker earnings. During much of the
1960s, the minimum wage was close to 50 percent of the same wage
benchmark. If the minimum wage were at 50 percent of the production
worker wage in 2012 (again, using CBO projections to produce a full-year
2012 estimate), the federal minimum would be $10.01 per hour.

A final benchmark for the minimum wage is productivity growth. Figure
2 below compares growth in average labor productivity with the real
value of the minimum wage between the late 1940s and the end of the
last decade. Between the end of World War II and 1968, the minimum
wage tracked average productivity growth fairly closely.

Since 1968, however, productivity growth has far outpaced the minimum wage. If the minimum wage had continued to move with average productivity after 1968, it would have reached $21.72 per hour in 2012 a rate well above the average production worker wage. If minimum-wage workers received only half of the productivity gains over the period, the federal minimum would be $15.34. Even if the minimum wage only grew at one-fourth the rate of productivity, in 2012 it would be set at $12.25.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:22 PM   #46
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Instead of $21 per hour lets make it $50. Same difference. All it will do is cut jobs. Small businesses can barely keep employees anyway because of all the Employment Taxes. Add the health care expenses and you would be looking at a massive cutback in available jobs.
We should just employ one guy at eleventy billion dollars an hour and we can all live off of him.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:25 PM   #47
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
If I understand the original post correctly, the case they're making for a minimum wage increase is tied to productivity per worker. What they ignore is that much of that productivity comes from improved technology and infrastructure not better/harder workers. Why should the worker be rewarded for the full improvement in productivity while investors who made that increased technology and infrastructure possible get nothing?

Consider a McDonald's cashier. In the 1960s, a McDonald's cashier had to know how to enter the right price on the cash register for each menu item and had to know how to count change. Today's McDonald's cashier has to know how to hit the button with the right picture on it and hand the customer the change that the machine displays for him. Does today's cashier deserve more than 100% more than his 1960s counterpart?
Nope!

I don't think it's outrageous, though, to assure them the 50% of the average wage that the quoted article mentions. Our productivity skyrocketed during those years, but not necessarily because the workers were working That Much Harder.

Remember, no one - not even the article in the OP - is pushing for a $20 minimum wage. The article just says that's where it would be if we had tied it to productivity back in 1968.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:37 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
I know this is a current scare tactic by conservative corporate overlords... but it isn't technically feasible yet.

It turns out, it's harder to automate things that require fine motor skills, even if the job can be considered "unskilled," than it is to automate things require more complex thinking.

It's called Moravec's paradox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravec's_paradox
Your ideas about automation are childlike. It's like you think we are talking about Jetson's style robots.



Almost all non-creative jobs can be automated at least enough to cut the number of workers by a factor of 10. The only reason you don't see it is cost.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:38 PM   #49
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Do you think robots made those?

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Old 05-12-2014, 06:49 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
I know this is a current scare tactic by conservative corporate overlords... but it isn't technically feasible yet.

It turns out, it's harder to automate things that require fine motor skills, even if the job can be considered "unskilled," than it is to automate things require more complex thinking.

It's called Moravec's paradox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravec's_paradox
Amazon's ready to bypass the mail and parcel services with flying drones.

You know trucking companies are looking forward to the day when they can have a train of semis controlled by one guy or a team of drivers working via remote.

Hiring can be done solely by a computer algorithm that looks at certain keywords and smart searches things in a resume. Assuming you need to hire anyone at all, since basic clerical work can be done by AI.

Teachers are as good as gone once adaptive software is created that tailors itself to an individual child's intellectual needs and capabilities.

IBM's trying to make Watson into a physician.

But keep thinking that only jobs that can be taken by technology are burger flippers and autobody workers, though.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:51 PM   #51
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:00 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
That's mesmerizing. I watched for like 10 minutes.
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:06 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Do you think robots made those?
If a human made the second one down on the left they should be fired. Awful presentation.
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:07 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
That's mesmerizing. I watched for like 10 minutes.
I know. I can't stop looking at it. I want one in my living room.
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:10 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
20? You use to accuse me of 15. Keeps going up. Sounds like your butthurt hasn't gone away. Have you tried the cream yet?
I notice you didn't dispute it.
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:12 PM   #56
Claynus Claynus is offline
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FATALITY

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Old 05-12-2014, 08:08 PM   #57
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Oh yeah it's harder to automate things.

Huh, the Germans call their 'burgers' burgers too?

Learn something new . . .
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:12 PM   #58
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:17 PM   #59
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Huh, the Germans call their 'burgers' burgers too?

Learn something new . . .
You can get your grillburger with extra dikke.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:19 PM   #60
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