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Old 05-10-2014, 12:03 PM  
Count Zarth Count Zarth is online now
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Should the minimum wage be raised to $20/hr?

Seems like that would provided everyone with a comfortable living.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...e1-2012-03.pdf

Quote:
Using wages as a benchmark, in 1968 the federal minimum stood at 53 percent of the average production worker earnings. During much of the
1960s, the minimum wage was close to 50 percent of the same wage
benchmark. If the minimum wage were at 50 percent of the production
worker wage in 2012 (again, using CBO projections to produce a full-year
2012 estimate), the federal minimum would be $10.01 per hour.

A final benchmark for the minimum wage is productivity growth. Figure
2 below compares growth in average labor productivity with the real
value of the minimum wage between the late 1940s and the end of the
last decade. Between the end of World War II and 1968, the minimum
wage tracked average productivity growth fairly closely.

Since 1968, however, productivity growth has far outpaced the minimum wage. If the minimum wage had continued to move with average productivity after 1968, it would have reached $21.72 per hour in 2012 – a rate well above the average production worker wage. If minimum-wage workers received only half of the productivity gains over the period, the federal minimum would be $15.34. Even if the minimum wage only grew at one-fourth the rate of productivity, in 2012 it would be set at $12.25.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:33 PM   #61
A Salt Weapon A Salt Weapon is offline
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
You can get your grillburger with extra dikke.
No you can't. Pay attention, you can only get your feboburger with extra dikke.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:36 PM   #62
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A feboburger is an extra dikke grillburger.

I mean, most grillburgers are dikke, but that one is extra dikke.

Dikke.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:41 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by A Salt Weapon View Post
No you can't. Pay attention, you can only get your feboburger with extra dikke.

No, I think a feboburger is a grillburger with extra dikke.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:58 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
No, I think a feboburger is a grillburger with extra dikke.
yep, I had to look it up and ruin it but it is simply an extra THICK grillburger with Dutch beef and BBQ sauce and lettuce.

I like how the Dutch word dikke means thick. Compensate much? You orange windmill winders!
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Old 05-13-2014, 12:04 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
yep, I had to look it up and ruin it but it is simply an extra THICK grillburger with Dutch beef and BBQ sauce and lettuce.

I like how the Dutch word dikke means thick. Compensate much? You orange windmill winders!
That sounds delicious, I want one.
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Old 05-13-2014, 07:06 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Count Zarth View Post
FATALITY

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Old 05-13-2014, 07:50 AM   #67
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IBM's trying to make Watson into a physician.
that wont work for most, if not all, specialities.

The algorithms they use are only as good as the input.

That means that someone still has to get a detailed history and physical exam. Someone can have a script of standard questions to ask, but patients many times give different answers based on who is asking the questions as well as pertinent follow-up questions.
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:37 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Your ideas about automation are childlike. It's like you think we are talking about Jetson's style robots.







Almost all non-creative jobs can be automated at least enough to cut the number of workers by a factor of 10. The only reason you don't see it is cost.

You know how I know you didn't read the link I posted?
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:45 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower View Post
Amazon's ready to bypass the mail and parcel services with flying drones.

You know trucking companies are looking forward to the day when they can have a train of semis controlled by one guy or a team of drivers working via remote.

Hiring can be done solely by a computer algorithm that looks at certain keywords and smart searches things in a resume. Assuming you need to hire anyone at all, since basic clerical work can be done by AI.

Teachers are as good as gone once adaptive software is created that tailors itself to an individual child's intellectual needs and capabilities.

IBM's trying to make Watson into a physician.

But keep thinking that only jobs that can be taken by technology are burger flippers and autobody workers, though.

You know how I know you didn't read the link?

because that's what the link said. It easier to automate things that aren't fine, unconscious motor skills.
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:57 AM   #70
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 05-13-2014, 06:02 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Don’t Blame the Robots
Assessing the Job Polarization Explanation of Growing Wage Inequality

http://www.epi.org/publication/techn...me-the-robots/


Don't Blame Robots For Declining Wages -- Blame Dissolving Unions

http://www.epi.org/publication/techn...me-the-robots/
Holy crap. What awful writing in that paper. Those authors are so bad I'd give this paper an F just for the writing alone.

And, Lone you distorter you, this paper attacks various theories about wage structure, BUT DOES NOT CONCLUDE IT IS DUE TO UNION DECLINES. Of course, due to the abysmally bad quality of the writing, I wouldn't trust these individuals to analyze a game of tic-tac-toe.

In fact, it does not even address the affects of unions on wages other than in a throwaway line. That union conclusion is YOUR SPIN.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:30 AM   #72
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Yeah...I'm going to say that's bullshit. I wonder where they find all these savants with the ability to memorize prices for hundreds of items that are likely frequently changing.
It was the same way here right up until the store closed due to losing the property lease. Half the women could visually scan and count the items on the belt with one hand and enter the prices and amounts with the other much faster than you could even begin to bag your goods. The meat items always slowed them down though as it appeared they needed to check current pricing.

I haven't been in one lately though and wouldn't be surprised if this has changed.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:13 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post
Holy crap. What awful writing in that paper. Those authors are so bad I'd give this paper an F just for the writing alone.

And, Lone you distorter you, this paper attacks various theories about wage structure, BUT DOES NOT CONCLUDE IT IS DUE TO UNION DECLINES. Of course, due to the abysmally bad quality of the writing, I wouldn't trust these individuals to analyze a game of tic-tac-toe.

In fact, it does not even address the affects of unions on wages other than in a throwaway line. That union conclusion is YOUR SPIN.
Don't worry, they're completely non-partisan as well...

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Who supports us. EPI is a 501(c)(3) corporation. In 2010 through 2012, a majority of our funding (about 60%) was in the form of foundation grants, while another 26% came from labor unions. EPI also receives support from individuals, corporations, and other organizations.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:28 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post
Holy crap. What awful writing in that paper. Those authors are so bad I'd give this paper an F just for the writing alone.

And, Lone you distorter you, this paper attacks various theories about wage structure, BUT DOES NOT CONCLUDE IT IS DUE TO UNION DECLINES. Of course, due to the abysmally bad quality of the writing, I wouldn't trust these individuals to analyze a game of tic-tac-toe.

In fact, it does not even address the affects of unions on wages other than in a throwaway line. That union conclusion is YOUR SPIN.
lol... opps, linked the same article twice. Didn't even notice.

One, second. Here is the other article I meant to link. Not distortion, just a forgetting to copy the second link and pasted in the old one instead.

Don't Blame Robots For Declining Wages -- Blame Dissolving Unions

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/do...solving-unions

And here is another one.

The wedges between productivity and median compensation growth

Quote:
The divergence in prices of consumption spending and other parts of GDP (business investment, government investment, exports and imports) can be viewed in two different ways. One way is to dismiss the divergence as a technical difference and to treat the associated productivity-pay gap as unimportant and uninteresting. The second view is to note that the widely held and articulated assumption that gains in labor productivity translate into improvements in living standards implies that these two price series—consumption and output— must converge in the long run. Given that this convergence has not occurred for several decades, the second view suggests that productivity is not translating fully into improved living standards, and the divergence between consumption prices and output prices represents another mechanism by which workers are not benefiting from economic growth. Rather than dismiss or set aside this terms-of-trade factor that accounts for about a third of the growth of the productivity-median compensation gap, it deserves serious inquiry and a full explanation. Unfortunately, little research has been done in this area. Saying that changing terms of trade drives the productivity-pay gap is really more of a description than an explanation. Regardless of the cause, the implication is that the “typical” worker is not benefiting fully from productivity growth

Conclusion
Productivity growth has frequently been labeled the source of our ability to raise living standards. This is sometimes what is meant by the call to improve our “competitiveness.” In fact, higher productivity is an important goal, but it only establishes the potential for higher living standards, as the experience of the last 30 or more years has shown. Productivity in the economy grew by 80.4 percent between 1973 and 2011 but the growth of real hourly compensation of the median worker grew by far less, just 10.7 percent, and nearly all of that growth occurred in a short window in the late 1990s. The pattern was very different from 1948 to 1973, when the hourly compensation of a typical worker grew in tandem with productivity. Reestablishing the link between productivity and pay of the typical worker is an essential component of any effort to provide shared prosperity and, in fact, may be necessary for obtaining robust growth without relying on asset bubbles and increased household debt. It is hard to see how reestablishing a link between productivity and pay can occur without restoring decent and improved labor standards, restoring the minimum wage to a level corresponding to half the average wage (as it was in the late 1960s), and making real the ability of workers to obtain and practice collective bargaining.
http://www.epi.org/publication/ib330...-compensation/


Also, if you are going to attempt to throw an article under the bus, give specific examples of why, with maybe a rebuttal to what is said. Simple saying you think it sucks isn't a rebuttal. If it truely deserves an F, you should have no problem breaking the article down and showing why it does.

I'll wait.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:30 AM   #75
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by AndChiefs View Post
Don't worry, they're completely non-partisan as well...
If you feel YOU can address and rebuttal specific claims in the article, feel free.

The "I don't like it because reason and potato, derp derp" don't usually fly.

Attack the information. Not the messenger.
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