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Old 05-10-2014, 12:03 PM  
Count Zarth Count Zarth is offline
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Should the minimum wage be raised to $20/hr?

Seems like that would provided everyone with a comfortable living.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...e1-2012-03.pdf

Quote:
Using wages as a benchmark, in 1968 the federal minimum stood at 53 percent of the average production worker earnings. During much of the
1960s, the minimum wage was close to 50 percent of the same wage
benchmark. If the minimum wage were at 50 percent of the production
worker wage in 2012 (again, using CBO projections to produce a full-year
2012 estimate), the federal minimum would be $10.01 per hour.

A final benchmark for the minimum wage is productivity growth. Figure
2 below compares growth in average labor productivity with the real
value of the minimum wage between the late 1940s and the end of the
last decade. Between the end of World War II and 1968, the minimum
wage tracked average productivity growth fairly closely.

Since 1968, however, productivity growth has far outpaced the minimum wage. If the minimum wage had continued to move with average productivity after 1968, it would have reached $21.72 per hour in 2012 a rate well above the average production worker wage. If minimum-wage workers received only half of the productivity gains over the period, the federal minimum would be $15.34. Even if the minimum wage only grew at one-fourth the rate of productivity, in 2012 it would be set at $12.25.
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:31 AM   #106
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Please see Loneiguana's analysis. The price of Quarter pounders would not change because companies would just eat the extra cost of labor. Businesses don't care about making money. They only exist so people with few skills and little education can have a job.
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Old 05-15-2014, 12:21 PM   #107
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I remember my dad, when the topic of AIDS in Africa coming up et and how it was so rampant. my dad says "you know how they can stop it"? no dad, how? '"Stop ****ing"

I think that's appropriate here as well.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:35 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Dayze View Post
cool! I make $15 /hr! let's go get a $8 Quarter pounder with Cheese!!
True there might be some inflation. But a min. wage increase also puts upward pressure on wages all up and down the spectrum - including most posters on this forum. McDonalds won't raise the price to $8 unless a whole shit ton of new people can afford $8.

Min. wage has been raised many times in history, each time to dire predictions from republicans - which failed to materialize. Considering that it's at historic lows right now in real terms, I would bet that there won't be economic collapse this time either. And there's a very good argument that a min. wage increase would help counteract some of the massive wealth redistribution that's gone completely to the upper upper class over the last 2 or 3 decades.

I accept that min. wage is a complicated issue where economists are legitimately divided. But based on the times I've seen it raised in my life, and the arguments of economists I respect - I think it's more than likely a good net overall - especially for the poor to middle class.

I think this is another one of those areas where republicans use deception and emotional propaganda (look at that idiot at Burger King, he doesn't deserve $15/hr!) to get most of their constituents, who would ultimately be helped by a min. wage increase, to vote against their own self-interests.

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Old 05-15-2014, 01:39 PM   #109
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
And there's a very good argument that a min. wage increase would help counteract some of the massive wealth redistribution that's gone completely to the upper upper class over the last 2 or 3 decades.

Could you state that argument and what information you have that would support it?
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:39 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
True there might be some inflation. But a min. wage increase also puts upward pressure on wages all up and down the spectrum - including most posters on this forum.

Min. wage has been raised many times in history, each time to dire predictions from republicans - which failed to materialize.
Speaking of predictions, has the liberal war on poverty succeeded yet? It's only been 50 years so far.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:50 PM   #111
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Yeah pretty much. Crime is way down. No one's hungry. What more do you want?
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:53 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Yeah pretty much. Crime is way down. No one's hungry. What more do you want?

So how has the poverty rate done. War on Poverty would be measured by poverty rate not crime.

Crime is down because Global Warming.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:57 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Could you state that argument and what information you have that would support it?
Well the upward wage pressure is the key component to it. Obviously this is most acute at the lower levels. Most economists I've read think this effect is stronger than the inflationary pressures which will be a drag on this increased incomes, or the amount of jobs that may dry up completely. And again, I remember the dire warnings when we raised the min. wage in the early 90s. Republicans were freaking out then just like now. And oh look - boom times. That has to count for something.

Here's a pretty balanced editorial. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/bu...anted=all&_r=0

Ultimately the author thinks a more generous earned income tax credit is a better solution than min. wage increase. I could get behind that.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:58 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
So how has the poverty rate done. War on Poverty would be measured by poverty rate not crime.

Crime is down because Global Warming.
Poverty rate is relative. Someone living at the poverty line in the US in 2014 is doing worlds better than someone living at the poverty line 100 years ago.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:04 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Yeah pretty much. Crime is way down. No one's hungry. What more do you want?
In 1965, we had about 15% of our population living below the poverty line. Today, we have about 15% of our population living below the poverty line. And that's after only 50 years of spending ourselves into the debtor nation hall of fame.

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Old 05-15-2014, 02:04 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Poverty rate is relative. Someone living at the poverty line in the US in 2014 is doing worlds better than someone living at the poverty line 100 years ago.

And you have proven to be full of shit two posts in a row.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:09 PM   #117
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Wtf is wrong with you? Are you allergic to any kind of calm rational discussion? For a second there that's what I thought we were going to have, but now I see I can just go back to ignoring you.

Do you disagree that someone at the poverty line has it much better than 100 years ago? Let's see - now they get food stamps, subsidized housing, free healthcare and in many cases welfare. There's also subsidized school lunches, cleaner air and water, the FDA inspecting their food, subsidized utilities, stronger consumer protection laws, SS disability, etc. etc. etc.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:12 PM   #118
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
In 1965, we had about 15% of our population living below the poverty line. Today, we have about 15% of our population living below the poverty line. And that's after only 50 years of spending ourselves into the debtor nation hall of fame.

Cool - now breakdown how much of that spending went to defense, medicare and SS vs. how much went to the war on poverty.

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/8409...han-under-bush



Gotta just keep cutting that yellow area and all our debt problems will be solved right? Well that, planned parenthood, NPR and PBS. That's the ticket to financial health. Can't ever touch defense though. Never ever ever. Or oil, mining or farm subsidies. Iowa voters need those farm subsidies to be happy.

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Old 05-15-2014, 02:35 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
In 1965, we had about 15% of our population living below the poverty line. Today, we have about 15% of our population living below the poverty line. And that's after only 50 years of spending ourselves into the debtor nation hall of fame.



And Suzzer says Im nuts. Are you crazy? I mean like 50 years? Global warming man, thats where its at. And Unicorns and shit.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:43 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Wtf is wrong with you? Are you allergic to any kind of calm rational discussion? For a second there that's what I thought we were going to have, but now I see I can just go back to ignoring you.

Do you disagree that someone at the poverty line has it much better than 100 years ago? Let's see - now they get food stamps, subsidized housing, free healthcare and in many cases welfare. There's also subsidized school lunches, cleaner air and water, the FDA inspecting their food, subsidized utilities, stronger consumer protection laws, SS disability, etc. etc. etc.
Do you agree that liberals are FOS when they use the current poverty line to sell social program on top of social program and that despite any inequality in wages or any stagnation of middle class wages, the lower and middle classes continue to benefit from the American system and should stop complaining about how rich some fat cat that they'll never meet is?
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