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Old 05-10-2014, 01:03 PM  
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Should the minimum wage be raised to $20/hr?

Seems like that would provided everyone with a comfortable living.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...e1-2012-03.pdf

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Using wages as a benchmark, in 1968 the federal minimum stood at 53 percent of the average production worker earnings. During much of the
1960s, the minimum wage was close to 50 percent of the same wage
benchmark. If the minimum wage were at 50 percent of the production
worker wage in 2012 (again, using CBO projections to produce a full-year
2012 estimate), the federal minimum would be $10.01 per hour.

A final benchmark for the minimum wage is productivity growth. Figure
2 below compares growth in average labor productivity with the real
value of the minimum wage between the late 1940s and the end of the
last decade. Between the end of World War II and 1968, the minimum
wage tracked average productivity growth fairly closely.

Since 1968, however, productivity growth has far outpaced the minimum wage. If the minimum wage had continued to move with average productivity after 1968, it would have reached $21.72 per hour in 2012 – a rate well above the average production worker wage. If minimum-wage workers received only half of the productivity gains over the period, the federal minimum would be $15.34. Even if the minimum wage only grew at one-fourth the rate of productivity, in 2012 it would be set at $12.25.
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:50 PM   #121
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According to Loneiguana we're basically a third world country.
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:51 PM   #122
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It would actually be good for the economy, it would lead to a lot of consumption.

Seems like it just need to be done in smaller increments over an extended period to avoid inflation.
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:11 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
According to Loneiguana we're basically a third world country.
We are though. I mean my BMW is only a 3 series. Doesn't my employer realize that an individual is entitled to at LEAST an M3?
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yeah i may be a retard but I'll be the one banging your girlfriend when you're out with your friends.
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:13 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Cool - now breakdown how much of that spending went to defense, medicare and SS vs. how much went to the war on poverty.

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/8409...han-under-bush



Gotta just keep cutting that yellow area and all our debt problems will be solved right? Well that, planned parenthood, NPR and PBS. That's the ticket to financial health. Can't ever touch defense though. Never ever ever. Or oil, mining or farm subsidies. Iowa voters need those farm subsidies to be happy.
You're ignoring the purple and the green and the orange chunks that are eating up the whole pie, not to mention the teal chunk caused by overspending. Defense spending has gone way down as a fraction of government spending over the same 50 years that domestic spending has been undermining our sovereignty and darkening our future.
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:16 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by TheUte View Post
It would actually be good for the economy, it would lead to a lot of consumption.

Seems like it just need to be done in smaller increments over an extended period to avoid inflation.
Consumption is, at best, a short-term, feel-good economic prescription. It's not something that can sustain us anymore.
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:21 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Consumption is, at best, a short-term, feel-good economic prescription. It's not something that can sustain us anymore.
wft? What do you think moves the economy forward.

If people don't consume, people don't invest in business.

Without consumption our economy is doomed.

It is the only thing that will sustain us, period.
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:40 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUte View Post
wft? What do you think moves the economy forward.

If people don't consume, people don't invest in business.

Without consumption our economy is doomed.

It is the only thing that will sustain us, period.

That and such things as exports....raising the minimum wage may increase ever so slightly a incremental increase in consumption by a very small slice of the economy. And the increase in costs for business would likely be offset in lower demand for those same products overall. Fools errand you are on. Have a nice trip to the FantasyBank
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:42 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
That and such things as exports....raising the minimum wage may increase ever so slightly a incremental increase in consumption by a very small slice of the economy. And the increase in costs for business would likely be offset in lower demand for those same products overall. Fools errand you are on. Have a nice trip to the FantasyBank
You do realize you just contradicted your own argument right?
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:56 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUte View Post
wft? What do you think moves the economy forward.

If people don't consume, people don't invest in business.

Without consumption our economy is doomed.

It is the only thing that will sustain us, period.
Consumption is NOT the main driver of an economy. This is misinformation fed by Keynesians.

Spending doesn't lead to investment--SAVINGS drives investment which is the supply side of the economy. Investment is much more important than consumer spending aka the demand side of the economy.

Investment was way down during the 1930's Depression.

Consumption expenditure recovered by the fourth quarter of 2010. By the second quarter of 2011 it was higher than the pre-recession period. Yet private investment in the second quarter of 2011 was19 percent below its pre-recession peak. Investment builds the productive private capital stock. Increasing the money supply to stimulate spending aka Keynesian stimulus depletes investment stock. It makes it more difficult to save as goods people must buy like food and energy rise higher and higher in price.

It's regime uncertainty that is causing low investment despite consumer and govt spending.
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:57 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by TheUte View Post
You do realize you just contradicted your own argument right?
Uh, yet you have no valid argument at all. Just regime talking points and no real economic understanding.
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Old 05-15-2014, 05:04 PM   #131
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The Truth

Private investors, despite the full recovery of real consumer spending and the increase of real government spending for final goods and services, remain apprehensive about the future of new investments, especially new long-term investments.

I have argued repeatedly during the past three years that an important reason for this apprehension and the consequent reluctance to make new capital commitments is regime uncertainty — in this case, a widespread, serious fear that the government's major policies in areas such as taxation, Obamacare, financial reform, environmental regulation, and other areas will have the effect of depriving investors of control over their capital or diminishing their ability to appropriate the income that the capital generates. President Obama's harping on the desirability of making "the rich" pay their "fair share" (that is, more) of the government's ever-rising costs only exacerbates regime uncertainty.

Business leaders have spoken again and again of how the present political environment is discouraging risk taking and entrepreneurship.

Mises Institute: It's NOT about Consumption!
Remember that fight in Vegas between Clooney and Steve Wynn? Wynn complained that the investment climate was dead! Businessmen were too worried.

But TAX the RICH! Raise minimum wage!
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Old 05-15-2014, 05:07 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Consumption is NOT the main driver of an economy. This is misinformation fed by Keynesians.

Spending doesn't lead to investment--SAVINGS drives investment which is the the supply side of the economy. Investment is much bigger than consumer spending aka the demand side of the economy.

Investment was way down during the 1930's Depression.

Consumption expenditure recovered by the fourth quarter of 2010. By the second quarter of 2011 it was higher than the pre-recession period. Yet private investment in the second quarter of 2011 was19 percent below its pre-recession peak. Investment builds the productive private capital stock. Increasing the money supply to stimulate spending aka Keynesian stimulus depletes investment stock. It makes it more difficult to save as goods people must buy like food and energy rise higher and higher in price.

It's regime uncertainty that is causing low investment despite consumer and govt spending.
LOL, I love supply side people. No logic at all.

Taking something written hundreds of years ago and applying it today, .

We are a consumption based economy, period.

Saving does not equal investment. Why would I invest if people are not buying things.

Tell me what business would you invest in if people were not purchasing it's good and services.

The economy must continually grow or it declines.

Raising the minimum would be good for the economy.
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Old 05-15-2014, 05:35 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUte View Post
wft? What do you think moves the economy forward.

If people don't consume, people don't invest in business.

Without consumption our economy is doomed.

It is the only thing that will sustain us, period.
The US consumer market is shrinking relative to the global market. At the same time, foreign producers are becoming stiffer competition for American producers. The key to having a strong economy in the future is to have competitive producers who can out-compete their foreign counterparts for the global consumer market, not to artificially ramp up domestic consumption (a large fraction of which is captured by foreign producers anyway).
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Old 05-15-2014, 05:42 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUte View Post
LOL, I love supply side people. No logic at all.

Taking something written hundreds of years ago and applying it today, .

We are a consumption based economy, period.

Saving does not equal investment. Why would I invest if people are not buying things.

Tell me what business would you invest in if people were not purchasing it's good and services.

The economy must continually grow or it declines.

Raising the minimum would be good for the economy.
The irony of you criticizing the idea of applying something "written hundreds of years ago" to today (and I'm not even sure what you're referring to) is that you want to apply economic concepts that worked when the US was the dominant consumer market to a future where the US market will be dwarfed by the rest of the world.
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:01 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUte View Post
LOL, I love supply side people. No logic at all.
This has NOTHING to do with Supply Side Economics a la Laffer Curve.
If you knew economics you'd know the difference here. One is tax cut driven only.

Quote:
Taking something written hundreds of years ago and applying it today, .
Hundreds of years ago--2010 and 2011 are not hundreds of years ago.
And using time this way, is a logical fallacy. It doesn't disprove what I posted. No wonder you are showing such nervous laughter.
Quote:
We are a consumption based economy, period.
Asserting your point is not backing your point up. There has to be business investment so there are jobs which will supply not just goods, but jobs so people will have money to spend, silly.

Quote:
Saving does not equal investment. Why would I invest if people are not buying things.
Nope.

Savings is left over money that one can save and later invest. It is very much part of the whole economic picture.

Quote:
Tell me what business would you invest in if people were not purchasing it's good and services.
That's a red herring argument...and not the point at all.

Quote:
The economy must continually grow or it declines.
No one refutes this Captain Obvious but you're just being cliche here.

Quote:
Raising the minimum would be good for the economy.
In your opinion. It only means everyone steps up the ladder in the same relative position because food and energy have risen due to inflation.

You don't understand economics at all. You only understand political misinformation....and don't even fully grasp that.
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