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Old 05-10-2014, 07:05 PM  
Nightfyre Nightfyre is offline
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My brief take on the draft

My take on the draft: The Chiefs did not let the draft come to them, they went after the players they wanted.

Dee Ford - I like the player, I just felt like he was a reach for a position of need. But if we really were in love with him as a person/player, and really set on a passrusher, then the got what they needed.

Philip Gaines - Again, I really like the player. Tons of upside. Again, I feel like we reached for a guy we were targetting.

De'anthony Thomas - I see how he fits with Reid, but again, this pick seems like it was made a round early.

Aaron Murray - Great value. Love this pick.

Zach Fulton - Great pickup and a good scheme fit.

Duvernay-Tardif - Great value and hopefully he can come right in and make an impact.
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Old 05-11-2014, 04:34 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Saccopoo View Post
You're an idiot.

I said he was pretty strong for his size. And his size was small. And when you are small, you get rag dolled all the ****ing time by guys twice as big as you, just like McCluster did.

And that's why I said that taking McCluster v.II in this draft, De'Anthony Thomas, was a mistake as he's the same player as McCluster but isn't as strong. That means he's going to get rag dolled even worse.

You savvy?
So his strength, relative to his size, and in comparison to Thomas makes no ****ing difference.

Thomas is faster and far more elusive, and you selling that he is the same as McCluster is sheer fabricated, stupid, bullshit.
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Old 05-11-2014, 04:37 PM   #17
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Thomas has a chance to be our Tavon Austin except he was taken in the 4th round instead of 8 overall. He's not going to be a guy who comes down with the contested catch even 60% of the time, but he won't have to with his combination of speed and quickness.
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:27 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by milkman View Post
So his strength, relative to his size, and in comparison to Thomas makes no ****ing difference.

Thomas is faster and far more elusive, and you selling that he is the same as McCluster is sheer fabricated, stupid, bullshit.
Faster?

Sure. 8/100th's of a second faster to be exact. Wow. That's some serious difference right there.

More elusive?

You tell me:

Against NFL players:



DAT:


Combine Measurements:

McCluster
5'9"
172 lbs.
29 1/4" Arms
8 3/8" Hands
40: 4.58
Vertical: 37.5"
Bench: 20 reps

Thomas
5'9"
174 lbs.
29 7/8" Arms
8 1/2" Hands
40: 4.50
Vertical: 32"
Bench: 8 reps

So, bro, what do you think the difference is between 20 reps at 225 lbs. and 8 reps at 225 lbs.? And then, once your mind clears on that, tell me what a guy weighing 172 lbs. doing 20 reps at 225 lbs. would be? (Pretty ****ing strong is the answer if you are struggling with it.)

Career college stats:

McCluster
Rushing:
304 attempts
1955 yards
6.4 ypc
15 TDs

Receiving:
130 receptions
1703 yards
13.1 ypc
7 TDs

Thomas
Rushing:
243 attempts
1890 yards
7.8 ypc
26 TDs

Receiving:
113 attempts
1296 yards
11.5 ypc
15 TDs

Holy shit! For two guys of exactly the same height, weight, arm, hand, speed, etc., playing exactly the same positions for their respective college teams, those stats are amazingly close.

****ing weird.

But, like you said, they are nothing alike. So, because it's you who said it, it must be true, right?

Sure. Milkman said something. Close the book.
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:49 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo View Post
1. Xavier S'ua-Filo, OL; UCLA
2. Donte Moncrief, WR; Ole Miss
4. Dontae Johnson, DB; North Carolina State
5. Ryan Carrethers, DT; Arkansas State
6. Tyler Gaffney, RB; Stanford
6. Trevor Reilly, LB; Utah
Under your system, we're using our quality draft stock to acquire a guard and letting pass rusher, the FAR MORE important position, wait until the 6th round. And at that, we're spending the pick on a dude who has no better chance at starting as a 3-4 OLB for a quality defensive team than Frank Zombo or Dezmen Moses.

I'm pissed about not drafting Moncrief as much as you. And I'm probably the biggest hater of the De'Anthony Thomas pick of anybody on this board. But I can at least recognize the value and thought process behind Dee Ford, Aaron Murray, and the two fatties we drafted. You're off your rocker about every pick just because he wasn't the guy you wanted.
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Old 05-11-2014, 06:08 PM   #20
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Someone mark Sac's post for future findthedr Trevor Laws posterity.
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Old 05-11-2014, 06:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post
Under your system, we're using our quality draft stock to acquire a guard and letting pass rusher, the FAR MORE important position, wait until the 6th round. And at that, we're spending the pick on a dude who has no better chance at starting as a 3-4 OLB for a quality defensive team than Frank Zombo or Dezmen Moses.

I'm pissed about not drafting Moncrief as much as you. And I'm probably the biggest hater of the De'Anthony Thomas pick of anybody on this board. But I can at least recognize the value and thought process behind Dee Ford, Aaron Murray, and the two fatties we drafted. You're off your rocker about every pick just because he wasn't the guy you wanted.
The fatties we took are no different than the fatties on our roster. Probably worse. Rokevious Watkins was a first team All-SEC level player. Fatty pick #1 didn't even make Honorable Mention in the same conference.

Fatty pick #2 at least has some mystery and excitement about it.

Murray is a complete piss away of a pick. He's the same guy as Daniel. What the hell do we need a fourth QB for at this point? Total waste of a pick.

I'm okay with Ford. However, it's a luxury pick and he's got a whole lot to prove in terms of doing anything other than rushing the passer to make the pick worth it. Just because Dee Ford says he's the best pass rusher in the draft doesn't make it so.

And I liked Jackson over Filo anyway, though I understand that Filo gives you a bit more flexibility scheme wise and was probably the best guard prospect in this draft from a total skills standpoint.

Best guard prospect versus the third/fourth/fifth best pass rusher, when the Chiefs had a serious hole at the OG spot versus Houston and Hali under contract? I'd be inclined to take the guard with the #23 pick at that point.

And I'd be penciling Reilly in at ILB instead of Mays and dropping him in as pass rusher situationally. Guy had 9 sacks last year, to go along with 100 tackles, 16.5 tfl and an interception. By comparison, Ford had 10.5 sacks, 29 tackles and 14.5 tfl. That's a one trick pony. I mean, seriously...29 total tackles? That sucks. He's got a long way to go to be effective at the next level other than a situational pass rusher.
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Old 05-11-2014, 06:19 PM   #22
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The worst pass rusher in the league has a bigger impact on his team than the best guard in the league does.

Crying about taking a pass rusher over a guard.
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Old 05-11-2014, 06:43 PM   #23
Saccopoo Saccopoo is offline
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Originally Posted by Bewbies View Post
The worst pass rusher in the league has a bigger impact on his team than the best guard in the league does.
No, no they don't.

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read here. And that's saying something.

Quote:
Crying about taking a pass rusher over a guard.
I'm not crying about it. Not at all.

I'm just not all that impressed with Dee Ford in terms of his college production. He is invisible against the run, doesn't defend the pass well, doesn't make an impact other than the occasional sack and he's got an injury history which is significant enough that the NFL wouldn't allow him to participate in the Combine.

If they were hell bent on taking a pass rusher, I'd rather have had Jeremiah Attaochu to be honest.

We shall see. I just hope Dorsey knows what he's doing with these picks. From the outside looking in, they are somewhat uninspiring and questionable.
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Old 05-11-2014, 07:02 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo View Post
The fatties we took are no different than the fatties on our roster. Probably worse. Rokevious Watkins was a first team All-SEC level player. Fatty pick #1 didn't even make Honorable Mention in the same conference.

Fatty pick #2 at least has some mystery and excitement about it.
Aaron Murray was a first team All-SEC player for three years. Michael Sam was the SEC defensive player of the year. It's remarkable that you still post about conference honors as if they matter one bit to a player's success in the NFL.

Also, I don't ****ing understand your approach to the draft. You take the easiest position to fill in the NFL (OG) and claim we needed to spend a 1st rounder in order to adequately fill the hole. Doing so means you can't spend that high pick on a blue-chip player at an important position, but that's okay with you, because you claimed in the forum mock draft thread that teams shouldn't waste lower-round picks on offensive linemen. And that's considering that most teams with successful offensive lines have them because they struck it rich on fatties who fell to them in the lower rounds or as undrafted guys. And that's not very hard to do at all. It happens all the time; the Chiefs just suck at it, that's all.

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 3rd. From LT to RT, the starters at each position and the round they went in. You would have us spend another goddamn 1st on a RG, but don't want to waste lower round picks on that position?
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Old 05-11-2014, 07:14 PM   #25
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Will Shields - 3rd round pick
Dave Szott - 7th round
Brian Waters - URFA
Tim Grunhard - 2nd round

Good to great interior linemen can be found throughout the draft. Blowing a first rounder on one is silly, especially as it pertains to this draft and how stocked it was with playmakers on both sides of the ball.
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Old 05-11-2014, 07:43 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Will Shields - 3rd round pick
Dave Szott - 7th round
Brian Waters - URFA
Tim Grunhard - 2nd round

Good to great interior linemen can be found throughout the draft. Blowing a first rounder on one is silly, especially as it pertains to this draft and how stocked it was with playmakers on both sides of the ball.
And yet, we didn't pick one.

Ford averaged under a sack a game in 2013 with a meager 29 tackles.

That ain't a playmaker any more than a guard.
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Old 05-11-2014, 09:28 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Saccopoo View Post
And yet, we didn't pick one.

Ford averaged under a sack a game in 2013 with a meager 29 tackles.

That ain't a playmaker any more than a guard.
You have an unhealthy obsession with linemen. You so overvalue them to such a degree that it has transcended the realms of logical thought. To say that Dee Ford will NOT impact a game any more than Xavier Su'a-Filo will is just beyond comprehension. Guards don't win games. Pass rushers and playmakers win games. Will Shields never won shit in this league despite being a 12 time Pro Bowler. Steve Hutchinson wasn't the reason the Seahawks made it to the Super Bowl in '05. I can't help you. Nobody can help you. My head hurts trying to explain this to you.

I'll tell you what. This season we should keep an eye on Xavier Su'a-Filo and his contributions to the Texans and compare that metric to what Dee Ford brings to the Chiefs. I say this knowing Ford is going to be a backup player initially on this team. Even knowing that, I feel very comfortable guaranteeing that Ford will impact our team more Su'a-Filo will his, and he's likely going to start.


PS - If this whole linemen-associated-with-Sacc thing has just become a trolling mechanism, then congrats, because you're killing it.
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Old 05-11-2014, 09:51 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by kccrow View Post
If this were a true BPA draft, then Darqueze Dennard would have been the pick hands down. In fact, Marqise Lee, Xavier Su'a Filo, Jason Verrett, Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, and so on all had higher grades from multiple scouting services than Dee Ford.

This was the Chiefs interpretation, not a consensus interpretation of what BPA was. Dee Ford was the only pick I really, really didn't like, so hopefully he works out. I'm not very high on the Thomas pick either, but he has the ability to be a very good player if he can hold up in the NFL. We'll see. I think the rest of the picks were solid and good value, not amazing value, but good. It could be a good draft, but that doesn't mean the Chiefs know any better than any of us. As a matter of fact, that has repeatedly shown to not be the case in my world.
Dorsey does Moneyball on steroids. That is why they use the Decision Lens software. The Packers use it too, and it is why the drafted Clay Matthews when everyone was scratching their heads when they made that pick. As it turns out, it was a good pick.

This isn't some fantasy football type software. This is military grade data analysis and decision making software.

The fact that Dorsey believes in this software is probably one of the reasons why he was hired by Clark. Clark is a numbers guy through and though. This software isn't just being used for draft decision making, the Chiefs are also using it to make decisions about free agency, how much to pay players, and who to let go.
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Old 05-11-2014, 10:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo View Post
Faster?

Sure. 8/100th's of a second faster to be exact. Wow. That's some serious difference right there.

More elusive?

You tell me:

Against NFL players:



DAT:


Combine Measurements:

McCluster
5'9"
172 lbs.
29 1/4" Arms
8 3/8" Hands
40: 4.58
Vertical: 37.5"
Bench: 20 reps

Thomas
5'9"
174 lbs.
29 7/8" Arms
8 1/2" Hands
40: 4.50
Vertical: 32"
Bench: 8 reps

So, bro, what do you think the difference is between 20 reps at 225 lbs. and 8 reps at 225 lbs.? And then, once your mind clears on that, tell me what a guy weighing 172 lbs. doing 20 reps at 225 lbs. would be? (Pretty ****ing strong is the answer if you are struggling with it.)

Career college stats:

McCluster
Rushing:
304 attempts
1955 yards
6.4 ypc
15 TDs

Receiving:
130 receptions
1703 yards
13.1 ypc
7 TDs

Thomas
Rushing:
243 attempts
1890 yards
7.8 ypc
26 TDs

Receiving:
113 attempts
1296 yards
11.5 ypc
15 TDs

Holy shit! For two guys of exactly the same height, weight, arm, hand, speed, etc., playing exactly the same positions for their respective college teams, those stats are amazingly close.

****ing weird.

But, like you said, they are nothing alike. So, because it's you who said it, it must be true, right?

Sure. Milkman said something. Close the book.
Thomas is like 8 mil cheaper
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Old 05-11-2014, 10:58 PM   #30
Saccopoo Saccopoo is offline
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Pass rushers and playmakers win games. Will Shields never won shit in this league despite being a 12 time Pro Bowler.
I remember when Derrick Thomas had seven sacks in a single game.

We lost that game.

Quote:
I'll tell you what. This season we should keep an eye on Xavier Su'a-Filo and his contributions to the Texans and compare that metric to what Dee Ford brings to the Chiefs. I say this knowing Ford is going to be a backup player initially on this team. Even knowing that, I feel very comfortable guaranteeing that Ford will impact our team more Su'a-Filo will his, and he's likely going to start.
Challenge accepted.
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