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Old 05-10-2014, 07:05 PM  
Nightfyre Nightfyre is offline
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My brief take on the draft

My take on the draft: The Chiefs did not let the draft come to them, they went after the players they wanted.

Dee Ford - I like the player, I just felt like he was a reach for a position of need. But if we really were in love with him as a person/player, and really set on a passrusher, then the got what they needed.

Philip Gaines - Again, I really like the player. Tons of upside. Again, I feel like we reached for a guy we were targetting.

De'anthony Thomas - I see how he fits with Reid, but again, this pick seems like it was made a round early.

Aaron Murray - Great value. Love this pick.

Zach Fulton - Great pickup and a good scheme fit.

Duvernay-Tardif - Great value and hopefully he can come right in and make an impact.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:29 PM   #61
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As Petro always says: Reach, and steal are words that draftniks use when things don't fall the way they thought they would or should. In reality, things fall exactly the way they should. Players go where they should have gone, and where they were always gonna go, based on the 32 teams and their rankings.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:06 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Messier View Post
As Petro always says: Reach, and steal are words that draftniks use when things don't fall the way they thought they would or should. In reality, things fall exactly the way they should. Players go where they should have gone, and where they were always gonna go, based on the 32 teams and their rankings.
Ask that douche Petro if I should instead use the words "no talent ass clown" to describe Dee Ford.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:53 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Saccopoo View Post
Three teams took offensive guards in the first round of the draft last season.

Jon Cooper, drafted #7, broke his leg in the preseason and was placed on IR. He was the starter prior to the injury.

Chance Warmack, drafted #10, started 16 games.

Kyle Long, drafted #20, started 16 games.

Travis Frederick, drafted #31, started 16 games at center.

How many games do you think Dee Ford will start this next season?

So, getting a high level starter at a position, any position, isn't as important as a guy who's going to end up with most of his time on special teams?

Okay...

And we didn't take a starter at G with our third. We took a nickelback/special teams DB. We took a guard in the sixth who isn't going to see the light of day. Ever. And now we still have the same massive hole at OG that we did prior to the draft. So how are we a better team for this?
Yes those team did last year. I know that very well. I also know this was the deepest draft, according to the pundits, in the last 15 to 20 years. I also know just because we didn't draft one in the third this year doesn't mean that we could not have. We merely chose not to. Evidently they feel fairly well about the guys they have or that can still be had in FA.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:57 PM   #64
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If I'm Hali, DJ, Flowers, Bowe, Charles or any other vet I am pissed KC basically played the entire offseason for the future and not now.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:03 PM   #65
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If I'm Hali, DJ, Flowers, Bowe, Charles or any other vet I am pissed KC basically played the entire offseason for the future and not now.
If they're really pissed about the Chiefs planning for the future they could rework their contracts to help get more players for now.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:27 PM   #66
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In reality, things fall exactly the way they should. Players go where they should have gone, and where they were always gonna go, based on the 32 teams and their rankings.
not true. It just takes 1 team to fall in love with a player and reach for them. Raiders drafting of speed players such as DHB (among others) is just one set of examples of teams "reaching" on a player.

Others would be teams "reaching for a qb" such as in 2011 when Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder were selected in the first round despite major flaws or limited college experience.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:28 PM   #67
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If I'm Hali, DJ, Flowers, Bowe, Charles or any other vet I am pissed KC basically played the entire offseason for the future and not now.
Yes and no. 4 of those guys are responsible for a little over 40 million next year. So unless they wanted to give some of that money back on reworking a new deal they can't be too awfully upset.
I know the cap can be "massaged" but at some point you can't keep turning salary into bonuses and pushing the cap hit for that money down the road. You going to have to pay the piper at some point.
We have Alex Smith, Justin Houston, and Eric Berry that are about to get large contracts as well. I just don't see where in FA we could have done much that wouldn't have hurt us in the next couple of years with the cap. The exception being a stop gap one/two year player that might still be available or come available in the coming months.
In the draft what position would have been a better choice other than pass rusher, other than S Jimmie Ward with our first pick? I think he was the only quality player for that position, a position of need, left when we were on the clock. I also think that is the other position that could have had an immediate impact on this next season.
WR sure would have been nice for the offense. The WR position normally doesn't produce at a high level in the first year for sure and maybe on the 2cd year. A WR in the draft would not have helped those guys this year or maybe even next year.
Evidently they are not worried about the OL. I think most of us are uneasy about it and understandably so IMO. I still don't think they would have taken a RG with our first overall in this draft. They sure know more than we do, whether most want to admit it or not.
At least a couple of those 4 won't even be on the roster after this upcoming season anyway.
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:28 PM   #68
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not true. It just takes 1 team to fall in love with a player and reach for them. Raiders drafting of speed players such as DHB (among others) is just one set of examples of teams "reaching" on a player.

Others would be teams "reaching for a qb" such as in 2011 when Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder were selected in the first round despite major flaws or limited college experience.
There are 32 draft boards. I'm sure some are similar, but if a player you thought would go later goes high, that's how a board fell.
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Old 05-15-2014, 09:05 AM   #69
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1. Dee Ford, DE; Auburn
6'2"
252 lbs.
32 7/8" Arms
10 1/4" Hands

- Productive when he plays, but he's never finished a full season at the college level including a back injury in 2011. (Remember he wasn't medically cleared to participate in the Combine because of it.) Competitive on the field, with a good initial burst. However, he's not instinctive and doesn't make a lot of impact plays past the sack; e.g., doesn't make a lot of tackles for loss, forced fumbles, etc. Considering that guys like Jackson Jeffcoat and James Gayle were UDFA's, I think that they paid a steep price for a guy who is going to require coaching and time to go along with the historical injury concerns.

Who should have been the pick: Xavier S'ua-Filo, OL; UCLA

They took an OG later in the draft but nearly everyone considered S'ua-Filo to be the best at that position. He would have been an immediate starter and provided high level performance from the very first snap.

3. Phillip Gaines, CB; Rice
6'0"
193 lbs.
31 7/8" Arms
9 5/8" Hands

- I consider this a pretty big reach. Gaines hasn't shown the strength to play press man coverage at this point due to a lean frame and lack of on the field power. Injury history. He can cover in the zone and does have instincts when the ball is in the air, but he's not a safety as he doesn't come up in the run very well. His track speed (4.38 Combine 40 and was on the Rice track team) doesn't translate over to the football field. As Direckshun said, there was about 50 guys I would have taken before Gaines at this spot.

Who should have been the pick: Donte Moncrief, WR; Ole Miss

Huge, exceptionally fast, explosive, productive and only 20 years old. He would have been a top 15 pick next year. Oh, and by the way, have you seen our current crop of WR's? My mind is still blown that we took Gaines with Moncrief still on the board.

4. De'Anthony Thomas, RB; Oregon
5'9"
174 lbs.
29 7/8" Arms
8 1/8" Hands

- Dexter McCluster. And don't tell me that this guy is faster/more explosive/productive. They are exactly the same guy right down to the exact size, speed, production in college and upside in the pros. Exact same guy. Now, that's not a bad thing by any stretch, especially looking at what Reid did with McCluster this past season. The thing is, at this size, you've got to really love the game. McCluster did. And McCluster was pretty strong for his size, where Thomas isn't as strong/physical. He's more of a track guy where McCluster was a football player.

Who they should have picked: Dontae Johnson, DB; North Carolina State

You could actually make a case for a lot of players here (Brent Urban, Nevin Lawson, Cameron Fleming, etc.), but Johnson is a true press cover corner with size and speed. Strong hands and punch right at the line and will fight a guy all the way down the field.

5. Aaron Murray, QB; Georgia
6'1"
207 lbs.
30 5/8" Arms
9 1/8" Hands

- WTF? Short, with very short arms and very, very small hands. Shitty release. Lack of athleticism. He's instinctive on the field and has some excellent games where he's making some absolutely great plays, but there are a whole lot of times where he just absolutely shits himself and throws the game away all on his own. Broken leg, ACL injuries in the past. It almost seems that Dorsey won't take a guy unless he's been pretty ****ed up with an injury at some point. Anywho, Murray is not an NFL QB. Not even a backup. He will never get passes off consistently at the next level. Considering that he's a poor man's, less poised Chase Daniel, and we've already got the real Chase Daniel on the team, it's a horrible pick.

Who they should have took: Ryan Carrethers, DT; Arkansas State

Carrethers went two picks later. He's massive, strong as bull, eats space and blockers like Joey Chestnut does hot dogs and would have provided a very nice option to Poe throughout the season. Former wrestler who understands leverage and who is very instinctive on the field following the ball and diagnosing the play. Made a ton of tackles for the Red Wolves over his career and got better every single year.

6. Zach Fulton, OG; Tennessee
6'5"
316 lbs.
33 1/4" Arms
10 1/4" Hands

Looks the part, but doesn't play to the part. Very muscular and long. Looks more like a OT than a OG, but doesn't have the feet or legs or agility to be on the outside. Plays soft at times and doesn't drive guys off the ball. Slowest 3 Cone Drill at the 2014 Combine by any participant. Won't make it past the first cut as we've already got numerous marginal talent guards on the roster.

Who should have been the pick: Tyler Gaffney, RB; Stanford

Experience in a pro style system, fast (4.49 Comine 40), explosive (36.5" vertical, 116" broad) with good vision and power. Thick and strong. Instinctive and effective inside the tackles.

6. Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, OT; McGill
6'5"
298 lbs. (though he played/weighed in at 321 at the East/West Shrine Game)

- The Canadian Eric Fisher. Smart (3.92 GPA in PreMed), hardworking, strong and athletic for a big ****er. Former defensive lineman who made the switch to the OL two years ago. Plays nasty and just gets after dudes. He's also a model citizen off the field, volunteering with the Montreal police, Drug Rehabs, high schools, etc. Two time team captain. He and Catapano can establish a Chiefs chapter of Mensa.

Who they should have took: Trevor Reilly, LB; Utah

I'm okay with Tardif. They needed a backup OT and the guy has skills, smarts, athleticism and intangibles. However, he's raw like sushi and needs reps. I don't think you can prepare a guy within a single season to be ready, even a smart guy like Tardif.

However, Reilly would have given us a guy who is capable of playing any of the linebacker positions and playing them well. Originally recruited as a safety, he's been all over the field for Utah at DT, DE, both OLB spots, both MLB spots and S. He's fluid dropping back into coverage and has a variety of pass rush moves getting into the backfield. Very instinctive and plays pursuit, tackles and zones like it's from the textbook. I felt he was just a fraction below what you would have got from a guy like Kyle Van Noy. Same type of player (but bigger and more athletic) and at this point in the draft, a complete steal.
The primary flaw in your logic is that if we would've taken just "ONE" of the players you suggested in any of the positions we drafted then draft boards would've changed from that point forward. Thus, there is no guarantee that any of the subsequent suggested players would've even been on the board at the time we made our next selection.
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Old 05-16-2014, 07:35 PM   #70
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The primary flaw in your logic is that if we would've taken just "ONE" of the players you suggested in any of the positions we drafted then draft boards would've changed from that point forward. Thus, there is no guarantee that any of the subsequent suggested players would've even been on the board at the time we made our next selection.
...

The primary flaw in your logic is that you are attempting to realistically assess and extrapolate upon a speculative discourse. As such, your response is, by the very nature of attempting to apply cognitive reasoning to a literary hypothetical, what I would term a logical fallacy.

If wishes were horses...
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Old 05-17-2014, 12:38 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Saccopoo View Post
...

The primary flaw in your logic is that you are attempting to realistically assess and extrapolate upon a speculative discourse. As such, your response is, by the very nature of attempting to apply cognitive reasoning to a literary hypothetical, what I would term a logical fallacy.

If wishes were horses...
I like how Sacc is attempting to prove intellectual superiority with a post that is poorly constructed and is not concise.
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Old 05-17-2014, 10:59 PM   #72
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I like how Sacc is attempting to prove intellectual superiority with a post that is poorly constructed and is not concise.
I'm pretty sure that my response was quite concise. As far as it's sentence structure, I'd be more than willing to see what you would have come up with as a response. I'm always open to enlightenment from a master such as yourself. Teach me, oh literary guru.
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Old 05-18-2014, 01:44 PM   #73
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My take on the draft: The Chiefs did not let the draft come to them, they went after the players they wanted.

Dee Ford - I like the player, I just felt like he was a reach for a position of need. But if we really were in love with him as a person/player, and really set on a passrusher, then the got what they needed.

Philip Gaines - Again, I really like the player. Tons of upside. Again, I feel like we reached for a guy we were targetting.

De'anthony Thomas - I see how he fits with Reid, but again, this pick seems like it was made a round early.

Aaron Murray - Great value. Love this pick.

Zach Fulton - Great pickup and a good scheme fit.

Duvernay-Tardif - Great value and hopefully he can come right in and make an impact.

I think the combination of Ford/Gaines is better than if they went Dennard/????.
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Old 05-18-2014, 06:03 PM   #74
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I'm pretty sure that my response was quite concise. As far as it's sentence structure, I'd be more than willing to see what you would have come up with as a response. I'm always open to enlightenment from a master such as yourself. Teach me, oh literary guru.
a concise response would not use as many extraneous words...
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Old 05-19-2014, 08:08 AM   #75
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people fail the realize nobody knows what the Chiefs draft board looks like, yea you can say we reach for such and such player, but maybe on the chiefs board it isnt a reach at all
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