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Old 05-11-2014, 03:08 PM  
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Discussing the 1st rd: why Dee Ford was the best option

And here is why. Just rumblings from what we have heard.

Darqueze Dennard CB Michigan State-Nice product, but not better than what Dee Ford could bring.
Dennard is slow and he has short arms. He ran a 4.51 at the combine, which is not what we need. Take a look at Sean Smith and Brandon Flowers. They both ran in that 4.5 range and look at what happened to them. Remember Jacoby Ford owning Flowers a few years ago due to speed? Remember Eric Decker owning Flowers deep at Arrowhead? Remember DeAndre Hopkins owning Sean Smith at Arrowhead on that deep TD?

That's speed. It's not hard to see. Phillip Gaines has all the physical aspects, along with good production. Tackling is not a huge problem IMO. It can be taught, which he's in a great position to learn as the #4 CB for this year.
What can't be taught is....speed.

Marqise Lee WR USC-This guys hands have started to get bad. Real bad. 12% drop rate? I think people are already pissed off enough seeing Donnie Avery drop passes.
As far as pure playmaking ability, do you see Lee as a better playmaker than De'Anthony Thomas? I don't think so. I think they at the least very close, but Thomas has more speed and range due to ST's. He's way better there.

I can totally see why they passed.

Xavier Su'a-Filo G UCLA-Do we even need to talk about this? Was this not the one pick nobody wanted to see? He could have started day 1, which I admit would have been nice.
This could be a testament to how Reid feels about Rishaw Johnson. Why should we not trust Reid and Dorsey here? Schwartz was a great pickup, Parker was, Cooper was, Abdullah was, McGrath was. Did they not earn your trust for a guy like Rishaw Johnson, who coincidentally looked very good in SD?

I do like the Zach Fulton pick later. He's experienced and needs a little work, but in a year or two I feel he's starting over Jeff Allen.

Derek Carr QB Fresno State-I can't get over how pathetic this guys feet are and how awful he was when pressured. He gets scared. He panics. We're going to kick his ass with our pass rush. Did I mention he made a ton of WTF throws?
Alex Smith is the QB for the next 3 years at the very least.

As for Johnny Football,I would have loved him on this team. I'd take him over Dee Ford every day. But Alex Smith is their guy. If they really wanted him they would have got him. Moving up 1 pick would not have cost much.

Jason Verrett CB TCU-He's got playmaking ability, but he is definitely short which is a no-no for Dorsey.
Keep in mind that everybody is copying Seattle's draft strategy of bigger, longer corners except for 2 teams: the Chiefs and Packers. Why? Because they all came from Green Bay.

Jimmie Ward S NIU-The one guy I think we could have taken over Ford who was picked after us. Love what he does, but let's consider something here.

This pass rush is going to be elite next year IMO. That's going to help our DB's out drastically. Also, do we have Jimmie Ward already? Commings was a very good DB in college, but didn't have the footwork to play CB, which makes him excellent at Safety.
He's faster than Ward and just as physical with a long, big body frame (sound familiar?). I can see why they passed. They love what Commings can bring.

Bottomline:I think people love the energy and personality Dee Ford will bring. They like his confidence and swagger as well. This team needs that.

His first step is very "DT-esque". It's fast, just like Von Miller as well. He's got the production. He played fantastic ball against the best teams in the biggest moments.

This move makes so much sense in so many ways. I love Tamba. He's going to be one of my favorite Chiefs defenders of all-time, but let's look at reality. He's 31 this year. Next offseason we gain $9 million dollars by cutting him.
This is what teams like the Steelers do. They realize when their good players are nearing the end and they draft their replacements.

Tamba is going to start slowly declining in 2015 when he's 32. He might get some sacks, but you'll be able to tell. He definitely got tired the last half of the season.

This defense, and pass rush specifically, might be the best we've ever seen as fans next year. The overall amount of capable pass rushers could be better than the 90's, and that says a lot.
I can't wait to see what Dee Ford will do. I don't think 6 or 7 sacks is that big of a stretch considering we're going to play the nickel a ton of the time.
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:59 PM   #16
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If I was gonna make a top 10 before the draft of prospects I wanted and had a reasonable chance to be there when we pick, Dee Ford would have been somewhere between 5-7 on that list.

Dude has a few uncoachable traits in his game and psyche that this fan base is gonna love and if he can stay healthy, has a real chance at being elite at a position that is only second in order of importance in today's nfl to a franchise quarterback.

His first step, killer instinct, speed and athleticism make him worth the gamble.

He has Von Miller type upside IMO.
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:05 PM   #17
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Dee Ford still has a lot of untapped potential and I'd guess they feel comfortable in Gary Gibbs ability to unlock it. His ceiling is higher than the guys crow listed.

The Chiefs are about the potential instead of a players floor.
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanBusby View Post
Dee Ford still has a lot of untapped potential and I'd guess they feel comfortable in Gary Gibbs ability to unlock it. His ceiling is higher than the guys crow listed.

The Chiefs are about the potential instead of a players floor.
That's exactly right.

Every pick was made based on the achievable ceiling of each guy. That shows a front office working hand in hand with the coaching staff.

Something we haven't had in....
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:23 PM   #19
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As for why Dee Ford over Xavier Su'a-Filo or a Marqise Lee, they value pass-rushers more than receivers or interior linemen.
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:29 PM   #20
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Marcus Smith - Very good chance he'll start over Connor Barwin at LOLB for Philly.

Demarcus Lawrence - Almost certain he'll start for the Cowboys at LDE.

Jeremiah Attaochu - Jarret Johnson is 32 and Dwight Freeney is 34, he's going to see plenty of snaps.

Carl Bradford - Has pro read strength, Nick Perry has been a disappointment, they'll give someone snaps along with Peppers opposite Clay Matthews in GB.

How are any of these guys in a lesser position to succeed than Dee Ford? And yes, I think they all have similar abilities.
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:58 PM   #21
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1) Hali turns 31 this year and playing through an ankle injury last year might lead to problems going forward.

2) we are in nickel and dime sets more than half the time. Especially in our division where there are 2 big time passers and a rookie (Carr) or mistake probe vet (Shaub) that's gonna be playing catchup all year. There are lots of formations that can get Ford on the field arly on in his time in KC.

3) both of our OLBs lost time to injury last year...Ford will probably be the 2 at both spots.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:28 PM   #22
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If I was gonna make a top 10 before the draft of prospects I wanted and had a reasonable chance to be there when we pick, Dee Ford would have been somewhere between 5-7 on that list.

Dude has a few uncoachable traits in his game and psyche that this fan base is gonna love and if he can stay healthy, has a real chance at being elite at a position that is only second in order of importance in today's nfl to a franchise quarterback.

His first step, killer instinct, speed and athleticism make him worth the gamble.

He has Von Miller type upside IMO.
Not a ****ing chance.

Von Miller destroyed dudes in college. ****ed guys up. (With the notable exception of Russell Okung, but that's another story for another time.)

Ford was invisible on the field with the exception of the 10.5 sacks his last season. 29 total tackles. That's pathetic. Teams gladly ran at him all the time.

6 sacks in 2012. 34 tackles.

The guy had a total of 93 tackles in his entire college career. Trevor Reilly had 100 tackles last season alone to go along with 9 sacks.

And Ford didn't really impact the ball when he got his sacks. Only three forced fumbles for his entire college career. (Compare to Tamba Hali, who is effectively a point forward effort sack guy, but he's got the uncanny skill of separating the ball from the QB when he gets there. And Hali is absolutely relentless all game long. A ****ing warrior. I'm not sure that Dee Ford has the frame to be able to go against NFL OT's for an entire game the way Hali can.)

He's a major project at this point as a NFL rush end. He should be a viable special teams player right from the start.

He's got skills (a very good first and second step) and he's got a good work ethic and determination from everything that's been said about him. But he's going to have to learn pass and run defense basics while having the starting point be the NFL level. That's a lot to ask.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:37 PM   #23
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Marcus Smith - Very good chance he'll start over Connor Barwin at LOLB for Philly.

Demarcus Lawrence - Almost certain he'll start for the Cowboys at LDE.

Jeremiah Attaochu - Jarret Johnson is 32 and Dwight Freeney is 34, he's going to see plenty of snaps.

Carl Bradford - Has pro read strength, Nick Perry has been a disappointment, they'll give someone snaps along with Peppers opposite Clay Matthews in GB.

How are any of these guys in a lesser position to succeed than Dee Ford? And yes, I think they all have similar abilities.
Add Van Noy to that as well. (Also consider that he's very familiar with last years pick Ziggy Ansah. Should play right over his shoulder in Detroits 43 base.)

And Reilly should see a lot of snaps for the Jets seeing as Calvin Pace is 33 and was on a downward slide in terms of performance until his 10 sack 2013 season, which seems more like a last gasp then what would be a regularity from here on out.
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Old 05-12-2014, 10:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by kccrow View Post
Marcus Smith - Very good chance he'll start over Connor Barwin at LOLB for Philly.

Demarcus Lawrence - Almost certain he'll start for the Cowboys at LDE.

Jeremiah Attaochu - Jarret Johnson is 32 and Dwight Freeney is 34, he's going to see plenty of snaps.

Carl Bradford - Has pro read strength, Nick Perry has been a disappointment, they'll give someone snaps along with Peppers opposite Clay Matthews in GB.

How are any of these guys in a lesser position to succeed than Dee Ford? And yes, I think they all have similar abilities.
Bradford's going to play inside for the Packers. Bank on it.

The Packers aren't giving up on Nick Perry. They really like him and believe he's just gotta stay healthy in order to be the player they need him to be.

They might shift Bradford outside occasionally, but his prime job is going to be blitzing from the inside and covering sweeps, offtackle runs, and passes out into the flat. He's not just going to be some useless Mike backer like Joe Mays or Akeem Jordan.

That's the kind of guy I really wanted us to draft, whether that was Kyle Van Noy or Carl Bradford. Somebody who can play both inside and out depending on the situation.
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Old 05-12-2014, 10:12 PM   #25
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I wonder where they had Shazier on their big board.
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Old 05-12-2014, 10:51 PM   #26
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ITT: Saccopoo still thinks NFL teams look at a stat line and form up their draft boards off of it. Players from the state of Utah are stacked at the top of boards.
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Old 05-12-2014, 11:13 PM   #27
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ITT: Saccopoo still thinks NFL teams look at a stat line and form up their draft boards off of it. Players from the state of Utah are stacked at the top of boards.
29 tackles.

How does a guy who is supposedly as other worldly as Dee Ford get only 29 tackles?

Shit. Arkansas State DT Ryan Carrethers had 16 tackles in one game. From the NT spot.

What the **** did Dee Ford do to make sure he didn't tackle anybody at the college level with all of his Von Miller level talent? I mean seriously. There were three games this past season where he had 1 tackle. 1.

Trevor Reilly had two games where he had 14 tackles.

How the **** is Dee Ford going to make it in the NFL when he couldn't even tackle for shit at the college level?

How does a 6'3", 255 lbs. guy that runs a 4.53 40, benches 225 29 times get only 29 tackles for an entire season?

However, he sure does look good running without a shirt.





Vernon Gholston anyone?

Oh, and Luke Kuechly says "hi" and wants you to know that he's going to shove his college stats up your ass.

(And speaking of Kuechly, remember when I said he'd be NFL Defensive POY for the 2013 season? And people laughed and said "No way." Just saying...)
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Old 05-12-2014, 11:16 PM   #28
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ahaha you're ****ing retarded if you think he compares to Vernon Gholston

Your insight is about as wonderful as your opinion that Gabe Jackson was a first round pick.
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Old 05-12-2014, 11:37 PM   #29
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ahaha you're ****ing retarded if you think he compares to Vernon Gholston

Your insight is about as wonderful as your opinion that Gabe Jackson was a first round pick.
He's very similar to Gholston at the same level actually. Sack only rush end. Damn near the same player at the same position on a relatively equally talented team.

Gholston never did much in terms of impact plays other than the sack. Same as Ford.

About the same size, frame, both strong, similar measurables, etc. Both got drafted in the first round based more on their "upside" and physical capabilities versus production in college.

Yeah, I think that the Gholston comparison is totally valid.
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Old 05-12-2014, 11:39 PM   #30
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29 tackles.

How does a guy who is supposedly as other worldly as Dee Ford get only 29 tackles?

Shit. Arkansas State DT Ryan Carrethers had 16 tackles in one game. From the NT spot.

What the **** did Dee Ford do to make sure he didn't tackle anybody at the college level with all of his Von Miller level talent? I mean seriously. There were three games this past season where he had 1 tackle. 1.

Trevor Reilly had two games where he had 14 tackles.

How the **** is Dee Ford going to make it in the NFL when he couldn't even tackle for shit at the college level?

How does a 6'3", 255 lbs. guy that runs a 4.53 40, benches 225 29 times get only 29 tackles for an entire season?

However, he sure does look good running without a shirt.





Vernon Gholston anyone?

Oh, and Luke Kuechly says "hi" and wants you to know that he's going to shove his college stats up your ass.

(And speaking of Kuechly, remember when I said he'd be NFL Defensive POY for the 2013 season? And people laughed and said "No way." Just saying...)
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