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Old 05-14-2014, 09:04 AM  
petegz28 petegz28 is online now
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Feds released hundreds of immigrant murderers, drunk drivers, sex-crimes convicts

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...erers-drunken/
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:06 PM   #31
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If O'Bama's cohorts report the numbers, I believe. Why would he lie?
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:09 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
The more i read, the more convoluted this entire issue becomes. ICE seems to have their own definition for crimes which really twists the numbers around. It's really hard to differentiate the bullshit from the facts.

Im struggling here with the term "Convicted" and the way ICE uses it.

I was under the assumption that "Convicted" meant that the person was charged for a crime after being heard and determined by a Judge and or Jury. Apparently that isn't the case.

Example: If an immigrant were to be given a citation for speeding, they are now deemed a "Convicted Criminal" by ICE, even if that citation were thrown out or resolved in Court.

Same applies to these "Murderers". If someone is picked up by ICE for Negligent Manslaughter, they're considered "Convicted" for murder even though they haven't been formally tried and convicted by a court. They then release these "Convicts" to house arrest/Probation until they're able to meet with a Judge, at which point they're able to defend themselves and a trial can be heard to determine if they're actually guilty of murder.

That's incredibly diluted and makes it difficult for the general public to determine who they're releasing back into the public and whether or not that person is a legitimate threat to society.

The more i read, the more of a mess it seems to be.

How do we determine that someone is a legitimate convicted murderer if they've never had a trial in a court room?

Clearly, a LOT of homework needs to be done before we can draw any real conclusions. What a mess this is.
Any analysis by the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) should be immediately disregarded. They torture data to make it say what they want and when they can't do torture the data enough, they make ridiculous assumptions that make their "analysis" completely worthless.
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:14 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Any analysis by the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) should be immediately disregarded. They torture data to make it say what they want and when they can't do torture the data enough, they make ridiculous assumptions that make their "analysis" completely worthless.
Yeah, im aware that CIS is a complete fraud, but im talking about ICE's numbers.

Check this out http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/274/

Defining "Criminal" Activity: What ICE Counts

A chief reason why ICE fails to cite criminal activity more often as the basis for seeking deportation orders in Immigration Court is that many of the criminal convictions the agency labels as "criminal" in its own public pronouncements are not — under the nation's immigration laws — defined as serious enough to be considered a deportable offense.

Immigration statutes define deportable offenses, including what criminal activities are considered deportable offenses[2]. While ICE states it is targeting serious criminals who pose a threat to public safety and security, what it actually counts in its statistics of deported convicted criminals is quite different.

Very minor violations counted. According to ICE, its public pronouncements on the number of convicted criminals detained or deported include every type of criminal violation no matter how minor. Many Americans may not realize that very minor violations — violations that at most might subject one to a small fine, require no court appearance, and for which the only notice received is a ticket — are classified as "crimes" in some jurisdictions including the federal government.

"A boater in Florida speeds in a manatee zone. A couple takes an afternoon walk with their dog off its leash. A man drives without his seatbelt secured. All were on federal land. A federal law enforcement officer approached each. Each one received a ticket and the option to pay a fine. Each sent in a check. And by doing so, all pled guilty to a federal crime."[3]
Thus, by ICE's definition, the vast majority of U.S citizens have undoubtedly engaged in activities which would be considered criminal in some jurisdictions in the United States, including in all likelihood the very officials at ICE who are in charge of enforcing deportation laws[4].

Clearly, including activities that most citizens engage in as "criminal" greatly diminishes the meaningfulness of administration figures concerning the percentage of those detained or deported who were "convicted criminals."

ICE's definition of serious ("Level 1") offenses surprisingly broad. ICE also divides convicted criminals by whether the ICE "threat level" was classified as Level 1 (highest) to Level 3 (lowest). Recently released data for FY 2012 covering all individuals ICE was detaining on October 3, 2011[5] lists both the threat level along with the individual's "most serious" criminal conviction. The most serious Level 1 offense encompasses a surprisingly broad swath of violation types. Included in the data TRAC found cases, for example, with the following "most serious" Level 1 offenses:

Traffic offense
Driving under influence of liquor
Public order crimes
Disorderly conduct
Obstructing police
Obstructing justice
Possession of obscene material
Frequenting house of ill fame
Neglect of family
Possession of marijuana
Possession of liquor
Illegal entry
Illegal re-entry

Marijuana possession was the third most frequently cited Level 1 charge, while driving under the influence of liquor was the eighth most frequently cited Level 1 charge. Simple traffic violations were the 13th most frequently cited Level 1 charge. See Table 3.

ICE is resisting releasing more detailed records sought by TRAC that might help the public understand what about these offenses justified the classification of the noncitizen as a Level 1 convicted criminal. But based upon available information, it would appear that even what ICE labels Level 1 offenders may not always have committed crimes serious enough to be considered deportable criminal offenses, as defined by the nation's immigration laws.

It is also noteworthy that when all three threat levels are analyzed, just three offenses — driving under the influence of liquor, traffic offenses, and marijuana possession — accounted for more than one out of every four of the "most serious" convictions for those individuals ICE had detained. Illegal entry also made the "top ten." See Table 4.
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:23 PM   #34
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So in Summary, you can get a speeding ticket and then ICE will count you as a Convicted Criminal in their numbers. Busted with Pot? Convicted Criminal. Littering? Convicted Criminal.

With that said, of the 36,000 "Convicted Criminals" released, how many of them are truely criminals? How are we suppose to gauge that?

And of the 173 "Murderers" how are we suppose to draw any conclusions about that number if none of them have actually been tried for Murder?

WTF?

What is this shit?
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:31 PM   #35
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So now that we know how ICE gets their numbers, how worthless is the OP?
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Old 05-14-2014, 04:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Everyone knows that Obama has deported more illegal immigrants in the first five years of his Presidency than Bush did in his eight, or any other President ever has, right?


Year Number Deported
2012 409,849
2011 396,000
2010 400,000
2009 387,000
2008 358,000
2007 318,000
2006 280,000
2005 245,000
2004 240,000
2003 210,000
2002 165,000
2001 186,000
2000 185,000
1999 175,000

http://www.statisticbrain.com/number...-deportations/
That statistic is seriously flawed. The Obama administration counts illegals turned away at the border as "deported". Previous administrations didn't. I wonder why he made that change? Oh wait, I think I know. So he could say "I deport more illegals than any other president". Funny, this isn't the only stat he's changed the way of counting.
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Old 05-14-2014, 04:25 PM   #37
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:52 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by jjjayb View Post
That statistic is seriously flawed. The Obama administration counts illegals turned away at the border as "deported". Previous administrations didn't. I wonder why he made that change? Oh wait, I think I know. So he could say "I deport more illegals than any other president". Funny, this isn't the only stat he's changed the way of counting.

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Old 05-14-2014, 06:02 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Do some original research for a change you lazy ****.

http://appropriations.house.gov/cale...EventID=371296

You have to cut the numbers in half. (actually closer to 2/3rds) if you want to compare them to pre-Obama numbers.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:15 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Everyone knows that Obama has deported more illegal immigrants in the first five years of his Presidency than Bush did in his eight, or any other President ever has, right?


Year Number Deported
2012 409,849
2011 396,000
2010 400,000
2009 387,000
2008 358,000
2007 318,000
2006 280,000
2005 245,000
2004 240,000
2003 210,000
2002 165,000
2001 186,000
2000 185,000
1999 175,000

http://www.statisticbrain.com/number...-deportations/
Any thoughts on why they started counting (under Obama) "turn aways" as deportations instead of "interior" deportations like it always has been counted?

I'm a huge pro immigration guy but the willful deception in changing the numbers is disgusting. How does anyone defend an administration where this type of lie is the status quo?
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:26 PM   #41
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Can you throw us a bone and let us know where in that 2-1/4 hour video the salient points might be hiding?
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:36 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
Can you throw us a bone and let us know where in that 2-1/4 hour video the salient points might be hiding?
No freaking kidding... that wasn't a citation.

Maybe try something with words that analyzes that video and provides readers with the context and meaning.

Also... I already did do the research, and know it's B.S., but wanted an actual citation so I could specifically refute it.

I'll provide you (AustinChief) with what I found:

He (JJJAYB) is likely referring to the ATEP:

Quote:
Smith, chair of the House Judiciary Committee, points out the Obama administration has decided to include removals under a new border security program called the Alien Transfer Exit Program (ATEP) in the official deportation statistics beginning in 2011, citing internal documents his committee has recently obtained. He believes this practice is illegitimate because "there are no penalties or bars attached when illegal immigrants are sent back via ATEP and they can simply attempt re-entry," according to his Aug. 24 statement. The ATEP removals accounted for about 37,000 of the approximately 397,000 immigrants who were deported in 2011, Smith continues. Without them, the deportation numbers for 2011 would actually by lower than 2008's numbers under Bush.

What's the real story behind ATEP? It's a program that started under Bush in 2008 but was ramped up significantly under the Obama administration. The program repatriates certain Mexicans who are caught by border agents "to border ports hundreds of miles away, typically moving people from Arizona to Texas or California," according to a 2012 Congressional Research Service report. It's meant to break the "smuggling cycle" in which border-crossers were simply turned around the the spot where they were caught," allowing them "to easily reconnect with smugglers who would try to bring them across again, sometimes within hours," as the Los Angeles Times wrote in 2011.

By deporting immigrants 1,200 miles or even 2,000 miles away from where they crossed, ATEP is intended to be a deterrent to discourage multiple attempts to cross the border. The border-crossers are also fingerprinted, so if they're caught again trying to cross, the "consequences go up"—they can be repatriated even farther away, to the interior of Mexico, and face "increasingly severe penalties," says Doris Meissner, who was President Clinton's commissioner of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and is now a senior fellow at the non-partisan Migration Policy Institute.

So there are more potential consequences than Smith suggests for border-crossers who attempt re-entry after being removed through ATEP. The program is part of a larger effort by the Department of Homeland Security "to ensure that virtually everyone who is apprehended faces 'some type of consequence,' including criminal charges, formal removal, or one of the remote repatriation programs," according to the 2012 CRS report.

That's among the reasons why Meissner believes that it's legitimate for the administration to count the removals under ATEP in the deportation statistics: There is the immediate consequence of being repatriated hundreds of miles away and the threat of further penalties if they try to re-enter, and the program requires far more extensive involvement by immigration officials than the old practice of simply being turned away at the border.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...lly-happening/
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:46 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
Can you throw us a bone and let us know where in that 2-1/4 hour video the salient points might be hiding?
I would for someone like you who isn't a lazy douche but that'd be cheating for Lazyiguana. It'd be nice to see him actually research a topic instead of regurgitating talking points from whatever far left rag he happens to be reading at the moment.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:52 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Do some original research for a change you lazy ****.

http://appropriations.house.gov/cale...EventID=371296

You have to cut the numbers in half. (actually closer to 2/3rds) if you want to compare them to pre-Obama numbers.
A link to a 2+ hour video. Thanks.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:57 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I would for someone like you who isn't a lazy douche but that'd be cheating for Lazyiguana. It'd be nice to see him actually research a topic instead of regurgitating talking points from whatever far left rag he happens to be reading at the moment.
I'll direct you to the post right above this and that left wing rag the washington post.

And lazy is posting a two plus hour video instead of actually finding a citation.

Oh, and I believe this is where I say I already refuted your regurgitated rightwing talking point.
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