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Old 05-17-2014, 06:48 AM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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The inconvenient truth about climate change and Obama’s policies

By Peter MoriciPublished May 16, 2014FoxNews.com

The inconvenient truth President Obama denies about climate change is that China’s refusal to cooperate in international efforts to address the problem makes U.S. efforts to slow its pace futile. Moreover, his policies severely handicap America’s ability to mitigate its consequences.

The global climate has gone through profound cycles of cooling and warming since long before humans walked the Earth. While public figures and some scientists may disagree, the majority of researchers have concluded that human activities – in particular, greenhouse gas emissions – are now a significant cause of global warming, and they are urging concerted international action.

Carbon dioxide composes 80 percent of harmful emissions. Having failed to win congressional approval for a system of permits to reduce emissions, the president has unilaterally targeted coal-fired electric utilities and fuel used in transportation to reduce U.S. emissions by 17 percent from 2005 levels.

Those actions are unnecessary and harmful.

The global climate has gone through profound cycles of cooling and warming since long before humans walked the Earth.
In recent years, more abundant and cheaper natural gas has motivated electric utilities to switch from coal, and energy intensive manufacturers in metals, chemicals and the like have made remarkable, cost-saving progress to reduce energy use.

Responding to consumer preferences, automakers were making more fuel-efficient vehicles before the president imposed more stringent mileage standards. The high cost and stress of commuting are encouraging many young people to live closer to their jobs. Competition from rail is pressuring trucking companies to purchase more fuel-efficient rigs.

Together, those free-market decisions have reduced CO2 emissions by more than 9 percent from 2005 levels.

Now the EPA and other federal agencies want to micro-manage those choices by imposing inflexible standards on electric utilities and other manufacturers. Progressives would happily force as many Americans as they can onto mass transit, imposing a terrible drain on state transportation and local government operating budgets.

Those initiatives would not do much to arrest global warming, but by increasing taxes and production costs, they would send more jobs to China.

With an economy about half the size, China already emits almost twice as much CO2 as either the United States or Europe. Every 18 months, its emissions grow enough to replace the emissions savings the United States will accomplish by hitting the president’s 15-year target.

Other developing countries, like India, are similarly adding to the problem; however, China accounts for about 85 percent of the annual increase in global CO2 emissions.

When jobs are outsourced to China, global emissions go up, because China uses energy less efficiently and relies more heavily on coal than the United States, and the growth of manufacturing encourages migration to cities where folks use more electricity and automotive fuel.

Simply, without China’s cooperation, U.S. efforts are futile.

Progressives propose to bring China and other nations along through diplomacy, but despite considerable effort, the president has not been able to obtain Beijing’s cooperation on climate change, its undervalued currency, or just about anything else that would constrain the Middle Kingdom’s growth.

Put bluntly, if man-made emissions are the culprit, then by China’s actions alone global warming is going to happen with the force and fury many fear. The United States can do little to stop it, and efforts to do so will only reduce U.S. resources available to mitigate its consequences.

U.S. economic growth has fallen from 3.4 percent during the Reagan-Clinton years to 1.7 percent since the beginning of this century. This slowdown was caused by U.S currency and trade policies toward China that disadvantage U.S. manufacturers, restrictions on offshore oil and gas development that keep America dependent on imports, and costly and ineffective regulations on banking, health care and other industries.

Millions of Americans are without decent jobs, and governments at all levels are severely challenged. Those will get worse if the nation continues on its current path.

Rising temperatures will confront federal and state agencies with unparalleled challenges, as droughts dislocate cattle ranchers in the Southwest, insects threaten forests, arable regions shift north, rising seas flood coastal cities and new diseases attack humans, plants and animals.

Moving populations and economic activities will cost trillions of dollars, and an economy impoverished by mindless micro-management from Washington simply won’t be able to generate the tax dollars to foot the bill.

Americans will be forced to abandon farms and cities – simply, fend for themselves – as Washington will not be able to sustain the essential elements of civilization.


Peter Morici is an economist and professor at the Smith School of Business, University of Maryland, and widely published columnist. He is the five time winner of the MarketWatch best forecaster award.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/...cmp=latestnews
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Old 05-17-2014, 01:00 PM   #16
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Yes I'm pretty moderate in the US response to what WE need to do. Now China and India are a frikken mess.
The dirty coal smoke that China puts into the air actually counteracts a lot of the global warming effects by blocking out the sun. If China ever cleans up the particulate in coal emissions for health reasons, like we've done here, the global warming effects are still going to be there and be much more severe.
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Old 05-17-2014, 01:02 PM   #17
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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Nope, climate change is natural the Earth warms and cools. Also, the theory that it will destroy civilization is a really stupid one. A major ice age wouldn't kill humanity just squash it down to the equator. Other then that hot times have seen flourishing of life not mass extinction. Even in the human historical record civilization was at is apex during hot times and in feudalism in cold times.

The beginnings of the industrial revolution, agricultural revolution, and the new strain of wheat developed during the last feudal period made the cold times after the late middle ages and renaissance not as destructive in Eurasia as elsewhere but still there was a large die off due to disease during that time period. It just didn't totally collapse civilization as it had before.
Your a libertarian so by definition you can't possibly believe in global warming, since there's no realistic free-market solution. It's funny how these beliefs start with politics and then work backwards.
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Old 05-17-2014, 01:12 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Your a libertarian so by definition you can't possibly believe in global warming, since there's no realistic free-market solution.
Not according to real libertarians there isn't.

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
It's funny how these beliefs start with politics and then work backwards.
Why are you talking about yourself?
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Old 05-17-2014, 01:23 PM   #19
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China has passed the US in installed solar capacity. Yes, China's conventional power pollutes generation more than US conventional power generation. Yes, solar is still a drop in the bucket. But the fact is that China is doing more to prepare for an eventual migration to renewable energy, through R&D, production, and installation, than the US is.
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Old 05-17-2014, 01:27 PM   #20
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Go hug a tree hippy.

Renewable energy is pussy mom jeans–wearing socialist bullshit. Real Americans don't go for that stuff. They sneer contemptuously at it and mock it at all opportunities.

Fossil fuel companies are benevolent and all-knowing masters. They always have our best interests at heart and always do the right thing. We can intrinsically trust the propaganda they put out. And when they create laws making it harder for renewable energy to take hold in this country – we know they are in the right.
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:23 PM   #21
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Oh really? I wasn't aware.
Things that are near each other are the same thing.

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Old 05-17-2014, 02:29 PM   #22
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Your a libertarian so by definition you can't possibly believe in global warming, since there's no realistic free-market solution. It's funny how these beliefs start with politics and then work backwards.
The free market innovates and solves problems related scarcity or need.

In fact, there is already a solution to coal plants and natural gas plants. Nuclear power. Funny, the environmentalists don't like that one either.

You would rather have unreliable, inefficient, and expensive wind and solar.
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Old 05-17-2014, 03:03 PM   #23
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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I don't have to worry about wind and solar poisoning my water, land or air. Things like Fukushima and Chernobyl tend to make people a little nervous about nuclear power.

Oh but that would never happen here right? After Fukushima they did an audit on the San Onofre plant that happens to be upwind of about 30 million people. It turns out the kind of water jets they would've needed to put out a fire like Fukushima hadn't worked for years. They also reduced their fire safety team to a skeleton crew without notifying the NRC.

The plant has since been decommissioned. But without Fukushima, there likely wouldn't have been nearly as much scrutiny on it. It had been described as a disaster waiting to happen.

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Old 05-17-2014, 03:06 PM   #24
Aries Walker Aries Walker is online now
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Things that are near each other are the same thing.

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Apparently.

I'll have to remember that next time someone asks me where Overland Park is. Obviously, it's "in" Missouri.
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Old 05-17-2014, 03:18 PM   #25
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Things like Fukushima and Chernobyl tend to make people a little nervous about nuclear power.
So a nuclear power plant that took an earthquake and a tsunami to break, that was over 40 years old, and based on a compact naval power plant and a Soviet engineered power plant with Soviet trained workers make people think that modern nuclear power plants are designed and built the same way?

Most people are simply uninformed and don't know any better. Mining kills more people in the US each year than Chernobyl and Fukushima have.

Quote:
Oh but that would never happen here right? After Fukushima they did an audit on the San Onofre plant that happens to be upwind of about 30 million people. It turns out the kind of water jets they would've needed to put out a fire like Fukushima haven't worked for over a decade.

Sounds like a good idea to build new modern plants or retrofit old ones. Oh wait, the power companies can't do that because the capital costs and construction times are way too high due to legislation passed on behalf of your side, the environmentalists.

So in other words, the free market has designed a lower pollution, efficient, and reliable power planet. If only the government, which you seem to admire for some reason, would get out of the way to let the free market implement it.
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Old 05-17-2014, 03:19 PM   #26
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Lol, you know the republicans will flip back to denying the reality of anthropogenic climate change at the drop of a hat.
Don't harsh my buzz, man. Just when it looks like sanity might take a little hold.
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Old 05-17-2014, 03:24 PM   #27
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So a nuclear power plant that took an earthquake and a tsunami to break, that was over 40 years old, and based on a compact naval power plant and a Soviet engineered power plant with Soviet trained workers make people think that modern nuclear power plants are designed and built the same way?

Most people are simply uninformed and don't know any better. Mining kills more people in the US each year than Chernobyl and Fukushima have.




Sounds like a good idea to build new modern plants or retrofit old ones. Oh wait, the power companies can't do that because the capital costs and construction times are way too high due to legislation passed on behalf of your side, the environmentalists.

So in other words, the free market has designed a lower pollution, efficient, and reliable power planet. If only the government, which you seem to admire for some reason, would get out of the way to let the free market implement it.

I'm not necessarily against modern nuclear reactors. But don't handwave away there isn't some reason to be concerned. I think if you keep trusting big business - whether alone or in bed with government - then that's the definition of insanity. The best defense imo is a strong, well-informed, politically active community who holds their leaders accountable. A pipe dream I know. But when it comes to risking direct harm from environmental disaster – people tend to get a lot smarter, less blindly partisan, and more engaged in politics. Funny how that works.

No one is going to want one of these things in their backyard. It's never going to come about from a free-market. It's going to have to be shut down someone's throat by the govt like they do in Israel or France. That doesn't sound very libertarian to me.
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Old 05-17-2014, 03:32 PM   #28
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A pipe dream I know. But when it comes to risking direct harm from environmental disaster – people tend to get a lot smarter, less blindly partisan, and more engaged in politics. Funny how that works.
Quite the opposite I have found. Most people get hysterical and listen to their emotions much more than reason. Politicians take advantage by scapegoating, lying, and whipping up the 'we must do something' emotional sentiment.

Quote:
No one is going to want one of these things in their backyard. It's never going to come about from a free-market. It's going to have to be shut down someone's throat by the govt like they do in Israel or France. That doesn't sound very libertarian to me.
Yes, because the government has decided that your private property isn't really your property to do with as you please. If I am a large power company and have 400 acres I want to build a nuclear power plant on, I should be able to do that. If you own property next to it and you don't like it well then you can sell your property or offer to buy mine.

If I damage your property without a contract saying I can and how I can then you can sue. Otherwise, what I do with my property is no concern of yours. That is the libertarian solution.
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:24 PM   #29
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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Business: Nuclear plants are safe.
Person: But what about Fukushima? What about what they found at San Onofre?
Business: Those were old plants. New plants haven't had any disasters.
Person: But aren't new plants run by the same companies who let the old plants slip into disaster risk?
Libertarian: STOP BEING HYSTERICAL!

Business: Offshore drilling is safe...
etc.


Yep - so no problem with a whorehouse, airport or garlic factory going up in the lot adjacent to your house? Do communities have any right to set zoning ordinances in libertopia?

That's nice of you to allow me to sue the electric company if they kill me or destroy my land from radiation poisoning. I'm sure the bankruptcy court will give me my share of the negative net worth the company has left. Punishment after the fact is clearly superior to prevention in this case. We all know the individuals who run companies always choose the safe less profitable path over the risky more profitable one.

So the courts basically just replace the government as the source of power in libertopia. What could go wrong?

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Old 05-17-2014, 08:58 PM   #30
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Apparently.

I'll have to remember that next time someone asks me where Overland Park is. Obviously, it's "in" Missouri.
Good analogy. Its pretty cool that Trent Green still lives in Kansas City after playing here. "No he doesn't liar, he lives in Leawood!"
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