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Old 05-21-2014, 07:54 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Obama and the VA

Ive been pretty busy running my business but this thing has even gotten coverage on KC radio news. Whats the story and why is Obama saying he is mad?
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:35 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
So what about the original question. Bush has nothing to do with the VA. Has Obama gotten this thing in order? What has he done?
You may want to check that. Well, unless you don't want to be wrong. In that case you probably don't want to check that.
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:37 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
depends on what criteria you're using...

in terms of cutting edge medical technology and innovation, definitely the us...

in terms of providing health care to the entire population, particularly the poor, and in terms of outcome vs. costs, it's canada...

What criteria would you use to explain the VA's breakdown and failure to do the very task they are assigned?

I suppose if the vets who died had your perspective and understanding of criteria this wouldn't be that big a deal. Or maybe its not a big deal?
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:37 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Understood, but a single payer health care system will be no different. Politicians and their fundraisers will have more say than a free market health care system.
sure, but we don't have a free market health system...

it's controlled by insurance company executives rather than politicians, but there is very little about it that you could describe as a free market...

privately controlled, but not free market at all...

as far as a single payer system, i still point to medicare and medicaid as successful examples...
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:40 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
depends on what criteria you're using...

in terms of cutting edge medical technology and innovation, definitely the us...

in terms of providing health care to the entire population, particularly the poor, and in terms of outcome vs. costs, it's canada...
Maybe we should cut our health care costs and rely on Canada companies to cure all our ills.
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:42 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
sure, but we don't have a free market health system...

it's controlled by insurance company executives rather than politicians, but there is very little about it that you could describe as a free market...

privately controlled, but not free market at all...

as far as a single payer system, i still point to medicare and medicaid as successful examples...
It's more a free market than turning it over to congress.
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:43 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
sure, but we don't have a free market health system...

it's controlled by insurance company executives rather than politicians, but there is very little about it that you could describe as a free market...

privately controlled, but not free market at all...

as far as a single payer system, i still point to medicare and medicaid as successful examples...
Fixed it for you.

State laws and regulations have a lot more to do with your health insurance than the executives of companies do. When certain coverage is mandated it cuts back on your choices.
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:43 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
What criteria would you use to explain the VA's breakdown and failure to do the very task they are assigned?

I suppose if the vets who died had your perspective and understanding of criteria this wouldn't be that big a deal. Or maybe its not a big deal?
first off, while the va is having significant problems, it still delivers very good health care to the vast majority of vets...

whatever failure there is is not a complete failure, they're still doing lots of good work...

and i don't quite know what you mean by my perspective when you're talking about vets who died waiting for treatment...

it's a very big deal and should not happen, ever...

heads need to roll and people in congress need to take a hard look at the delivery system and try to come with feasible alternatives to the current mess...

is that the perspective you mean?
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:45 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Maybe we should cut our health care costs and rely on Canada companies to cure all our ills.
could you be taking that to an absurd extreme?

we need to cut our health care costs, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that we should rely on canadian companies or the canadian health care system to do it...
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:47 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
It's more a free market than turning it over to congress.
well, sure...

but some things do need to be dealt with by the federal government, imperfect as it may be...

i still see medicare as a successful example of a single payer system...

it can be improved, but it's pretty good for us old geezers right now...
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:49 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
first off, while the va is having significant problems, it still delivers very good health care to the vast majority of vets...

whatever failure there is is not a complete failure, they're still doing lots of good work...

and i don't quite know what you mean by my perspective when you're talking about vets who died waiting for treatment...

it's a very big deal and should not happen, ever...

heads need to roll and people in congress need to take a hard look at the delivery system and try to come with feasible alternatives to the current mess...

is that the perspective you mean?

Ok. You made light of what seems to be a pretty serious breakdown. So I suppose what I mean by perspective is yours seems to be a sort of lets laugh this off and take a semi smart ass point of view. Shit happens right? All this effort to hold anyone responsible is pretty silly. After all, so a few guys die while waiting for a doc to see them. Lots of people saw docs and didnt die.

Criteria is how many didn't die? Yea VA!!!
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:51 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
could you be taking that to an absurd extreme?

we need to cut our health care costs, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that we should rely on canadian companies or the canadian health care system to do it...
Part of our private health care costs are paid for by companies that research and develop life saving or enhancing drugs. Are you saying Canada equals us in that regard?
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:54 PM   #57
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Fixed it for you.

State laws and regulations have a lot more to do with your health insurance than the executives of companies do. When certain coverage is mandated it cuts back on your choices.
sure, states regulate insurers, but the insurers decide what is covered and what they will pay for certain services under the policies that they offer...

and most people don't get to choose their insurance company, that is done by their employer based on cost...

and yes, when certain coverages are mandated, that cuts back on your choices (unless like most people, you get your insurance through your employer)...
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:56 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Ok. You made light of what seems to be a pretty serious breakdown. So I suppose what I mean by perspective is yours seems to be a sort of lets laugh this off and take a semi smart ass point of view. Shit happens right? All this effort to hold anyone responsible is pretty silly. After all, so a few guys die while waiting for a doc to see them. Lots of people saw docs and didnt die.

Criteria is how many didn't die? Yea VA!!!
let's laugh it off?

seriously, that's what you got from my post?

and i don't think i made any statement at all about not holding anyone responsible, are you actually reading my posts?
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:58 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Part of our private health care costs are paid for by companies that research and develop life saving or enhancing drugs. Are you saying Canada equals us in that regard?
no, but i'm beginning to wonder if i'm speaking some foreign language in this thread...

maybe i should try hebrew or something...
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Old 05-22-2014, 11:01 PM   #60
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sure, states regulate insurers, but the insurers decide what is covered and what they will pay for certain services under the policies that they offer...

and most people don't get to choose their insurance company, that is done by their employer based on cost...

and yes, when certain coverages are mandated, that cuts back on your choices (unless like most people, you get your insurance through your employer...
You do know that the state has to certify what companies are allowed to sell their plans in your state right? Government sanctioned monopolies are certainly not free market.

I am all for decoupling insurance from employment. The coupling was one stupidity trying to make up for another stupidity, wage and price freezes during WWII.

Indeed. Remember, the politicians think that they know what you need/want covered better than you do. I find that highly offensive. I want more choice with a wider variety of prices and plans, so people can choose the plan that best fits them. Tearing down the regulatory wall does that. Its not a private business problem it is a government regulation/cronyism problem.
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