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Old 05-22-2014, 09:33 PM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is online now
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What's better since the Democrats took power in 2008?

I'll start with the stock market. My investments in big corporations are doing well.

Name your own. Go.
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Old 05-23-2014, 11:26 AM   #46
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Old 05-23-2014, 11:29 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Amnorix, believes the false govt narrative in points: 1 and 2 ; thinks 5 is good for the private sector. This is what trust in politicians does to people. They believe lies. The politicians revise how things get counted when the results are bad.

you're an idiot. I also understand some of WHY the data is trending the way it is has.
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Old 05-23-2014, 12:49 PM   #48
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cosmo must have Obama on Mt Rushmore because he's this far into his Presidency and he's never made even a single misstep. Not even one error of any kind.
If you say so
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Old 05-23-2014, 12:54 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Without giving credit or blame to anyone, there's really no arguing any of these items:

1. the stock market

2. the rate of private sector job growth (versus jobs being lost).

3. the rate at which US servicemen are dying or being wounded in combat

4. the amount of borrowing that the US incurs to pay its bills

5. the amount of taxes being collected is up (whether this is a good or bad thing is in the eye of the beholder, of course).

6. the rate of failure of major US corporations is down substantially

7. the rate of growth of federal government spending is down (whether this is a good or bad thing is also in the eye of the beholder).

8. the homicide rate, and general violent crime rate, in the U.S. is continuing to trend downward. (note, this appears true through at least 2012. More current data is either unavailable, or I just couldn't find it on brief look).


Please note that I am NOT saying that Obama is responsible for all of the above happening. I am merely answering the question posed in the OP.
The uninsured rate is also lower than at any time since Gallup began tracking it in 2008, and there is every reason to believe it'll continue to fall as more people sign up for coverage at the next open enrollment.
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:35 PM   #50
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"Better" is a point of view and subjective.

The data says the Dollar is losing value
The data says that the majority of Americans are losing economic power
The data says we're still deep in debt


So from my point of view....we're not better off. Not even close.
I think he was responding to what is better. Better doesn't mean satisfactory, it is relative (in this case the question referred to 2008).

Statistically speaking the areas he listed are "better." Acknowledging that doesn't reflect satisfaction.
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:36 PM   #51
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you're an idiot. I also understand some of WHY the data is trending the way it is has.
Are the malls full?
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:39 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by VAChief View Post
Are the malls full?
rep
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Old 05-23-2014, 02:05 PM   #53
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by VAChief View Post
Are the malls full?
Of course. With all that money printing why not?

Though in the first year of the depression, they were full, because the market was correcting itself with lower prices and lots of sales. Ya' know the deflation that's supposed to be soooooooooooo bad for the economy.
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Old 05-23-2014, 03:00 PM   #54
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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It's interesting, when the market is good under a Republican it's all paper wealth with no bearing on the real world in the eyes of many. If a Republican president were in office now it'd be called a "jobless recovery", or a "McRecovery" with people taking crappy jobs or going on disability instead of getting back into real careers. But currently, we have a "change" in the Dow that we can believe in?

Bush's term was marked more or less uninterrupted economic prosperity until the very end, in what was obviously an economic correction related to ill-conceived policies, in particular the housing market, that had largely predated him.

The truth is really that Bush's Dow wasn't as good as his 8 year average, and Obama's isn't either, but moreover that the Dow is a point in time measure and not a good, quick way to judge the country's economic condition.
I agree with pretty much all of this. I do think the Dow going up is generally a good thing, and certainly does have bearing on the real world.

In this particular case, however, the Dow is riding high partly due to QE(3) and other policies that are not sustainable indefinitely, and therefore if nothing else the DEGREE to which the Dow is up paints a distorted picture.
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Old 05-23-2014, 03:02 PM   #55
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Originally Posted by VAChief View Post
I think he was responding to what is better. Better doesn't mean satisfactory, it is relative (in this case the question referred to 2008).

Statistically speaking the areas he listed are "better." Acknowledging that doesn't reflect satisfaction.

Precisely. Nor did I say whether they would be "more better" (so to speak) had we elected McCain or Romney.

The question was posed as if people would obviously be unable to come up with anything that was better, because Obama was Satan and obviously NOTHING was better (except the Dow). That obviously isn't true, and it's provable.

Well, the Obama is/isn't Satan isn't provable I suppose. I mean, he is the Master Deceiver.
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Old 05-23-2014, 03:06 PM   #56
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Just think, if we went with an Austrian economic solution, we'd have had so much better results after a tougher beginning of one or two years. We wouldn't even be talking just what has been better, 'cause of all the prosperity and prices would be lower for food too. No more $5 per item in the supermarket.

So sad to see false ideas trap so many good minds.
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Old 05-23-2014, 03:25 PM   #57
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Just think, if we went with an Austrian economic solution, we'd have had so much better results after a tougher beginning of one or two years. We wouldn't even be talking just what has been better, 'cause of all the prosperity and prices would be lower for food too. No more $5 per item in the supermarket.

So sad to see false ideas trap so many good minds.

The vast, vast majority of economists disagree with you.
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Old 05-23-2014, 03:26 PM   #58
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Just think, if we went with an Austrian economic solution, we'd have had so much better results after a tougher beginning of one or two years. We wouldn't even be talking just what has been better, 'cause of all the prosperity and prices would be lower for food too. No more $5 per item in the supermarket.

So sad to see false ideas trap so many good minds.
Austrian economics suck.

/Austria
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Old 05-23-2014, 03:35 PM   #59
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* the 1% are doing just fine, thanks for all the bailouts/handouts/welfare

* anyone making their living off of federal contracts is riding high

* basically everyone Obama said he would help in 2008 (people getting spied on, people getting assassinated, illegal immigrants especially) is getting ****ed, though some of them can at least get health insurance now (unless their state declined to expand medicare, in which case, they're doomed).
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Old 05-23-2014, 05:53 PM   #60
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
It's interesting, when the market is good under a Republican it's all paper wealth with no bearing on the real world in the eyes of many. If a Republican president were in office now it'd be called a "jobless recovery", or a "McRecovery" with people taking crappy jobs or going on disability instead of getting back into real careers. But currently, we have a "change" in the Dow that we can believe in?

Bush's term was marked more or less uninterrupted economic prosperity until the very end, in what was obviously an economic correction related to ill-conceived policies, in particular the housing market, that had largely predated him.

The truth is really that Bush's Dow wasn't as good as his 8 year average, and Obama's isn't either, but moreover that the Dow is a point in time measure and not a good, quick way to judge the country's economic condition.
I frequently point to the mcrecovery and do not deny it. Though I disagree with the reason you stated. And, it terms of the stock market:

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