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Old 05-22-2014, 09:33 PM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is online now
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What's better since the Democrats took power in 2008?

I'll start with the stock market. My investments in big corporations are doing well.

Name your own. Go.
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Old 05-23-2014, 06:42 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Without giving credit or blame to anyone, there's really no arguing any of these items:

1. the stock market

2. the rate of private sector job growth (versus jobs being lost).

3. the rate at which US servicemen are dying or being wounded in combat

4. the amount of borrowing that the US incurs to pay its bills

5. the amount of taxes being collected is up (whether this is a good or bad thing is in the eye of the beholder, of course).

6. the rate of failure of major US corporations is down substantially

7. the rate of growth of federal government spending is down (whether this is a good or bad thing is also in the eye of the beholder).

8. the homicide rate, and general violent crime rate, in the U.S. is continuing to trend downward. (note, this appears true through at least 2012. More current data is either unavailable, or I just couldn't find it on brief look).


Please note that I am NOT saying that Obama is responsible for all of the above happening. I am merely answering the question posed in the OP.

How much of that was with the GOP house? I am merely answering the points posed in your reply
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Old 05-23-2014, 06:46 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Precisely. Nor did I say whether they would be "more better" (so to speak) had we elected McCain or Romney.

The question was posed as if people would obviously be unable to come up with anything that was better, because Obama was Satan and obviously NOTHING was better (except the Dow). That obviously isn't true, and it's provable.

Well, the Obama is/isn't Satan isn't provable I suppose. I mean, he is the Master Deceiver.
Feel free to think what you want but the intent of the thread was to discuss perceived improvements made by democrats and was looking for real debate on how much they mean to long term America. I could have easily started the thread with how much worse we are under progressive leadership since it would have led to a lot more posts.

And all I take away from your original post on what's better is the Titanic is still sinking but we've given the order for all passengers to move to the other side to slow down the inevitable consequence.
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:58 PM   #63
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Lets say Obama has been all that. What will we see in the mid terms ? Obama as like the best thing ever should see a great victory of dems, maintain senate and regain house.

Who says this will be the election night result?
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Old 05-26-2014, 08:11 AM   #64
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He might, if Democrats would bother to get up and go out and vote for mid-terms, which they won't.
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Old 05-26-2014, 08:19 AM   #65
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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I give Obama credit for ending the wars, for doing his part for the recovery from 2008-2009, and for the ACA. Personally, he's set a good role model for education and hard work. I am also glad to see the advancements we're making on social programs, such as gay marriage rights. I also think we're moving toward slowing down the skyrocketing education costs, which is good.

However, I am not pleased with other aspects. I don't think he's a terribly strong leader, so he's prone to being pushed around. I did not like the Libya thing. I am concerned that the country is being militarized. Divisions are growing wider, both politically and economically. He hasn't even begun the conversation about gun control and mental health, which will just get worse.

I think he'll go down in history as a mid-range president - an Lyndon Johnson, a William McKinley, or a John Quincy Adams, that sort. Good, but not face-on-money, although he'll certainly look a lot better when held in contrast to his predecessor.
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:09 AM   #66
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Old 05-26-2014, 10:35 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
I give Obama credit for ending the wars,
What wars did he end? Afghanistan is still going on and Iraq was ended on a SOFA that was signed by Bush in Nov. 2008. I guess you can give credit to Obama for not reneging on the SOFA but that is stretching it.

He got involved in Libya which destabilized the country which is now on the brink of another civil war and led directly to one of our ambassadors being killed.

Quote:
for doing his part for the recovery from 2008-2009,
There is another bubble being blown up but I would hardly call what we have had a recovery. Some areas are doing better like energy but that was despite Obama rather than because of him.

Quote:
and for the ACA.
Which we haven't seen the full disaster yet. Just wait till the employer mandate comes into effect. We are just at the tip of the iceberg.

Quote:
Personally, he's set a good role model for education and hard work.
I am not sure why. Politicians would be the last type of person I would want somebody to look up too.

Quote:
I am also glad to see the advancements we're making on social programs, such as gay marriage rights.
Mostly done by the courts applying the equal protection clause properly. Now, if they would only take it one step further and see that the Constitution gives no power to the government to define what marriage is.

Quote:
I also think we're moving toward slowing down the skyrocketing education costs, which is good.
That is an absurd thought.

Quote:
However, I am not pleased with other aspects. I don't think he's a terribly strong leader, so he's prone to being pushed around. I did not like the Libya thing. I am concerned that the country is being militarized. Divisions are growing wider, both politically and economically. He hasn't even begun the conversation about gun control and mental health, which will just get worse.
He has been horrible on 4th amendment issues, the drug war, pardoning and commuting sentences, he outright waived the 6th amendment in his drone murder spree, his stimulus failed and just payed off cronies, he has been awful when it comes to school choice, and he has been awful when it comes to energy policy.

Quote:
I think he'll go down in history as a mid-range president - an Lyndon Johnson, a William McKinley, or a John Quincy Adams, that sort. Good, but not face-on-money, although he'll certainly look a lot better when held in contrast to his predecessor.
All the presidents since Eisenhower have been shit. Even Coolidge who I think was probably our last great president, made some bad decisions like appointed J. Edgar Hoover to any post whatsoever.
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Old 05-26-2014, 12:30 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
What wars did he end? Afghanistan is still going on and Iraq was ended on a SOFA that was signed by Bush in Nov. 2008. I guess you can give credit to Obama for not reneging on the SOFA but that is stretching it.

He got involved in Libya which destabilized the country which is now on the brink of another civil war and led directly to one of our ambassadors being killed.



There is another bubble being blown up but I would hardly call what we have had a recovery. Some areas are doing better like energy but that was despite Obama rather than because of him.



Which we haven't seen the full disaster yet. Just wait till the employer mandate comes into effect. We are just at the tip of the iceberg.



I am not sure why. Politicians would be the last type of person I would want somebody to look up too.



Mostly done by the courts applying the equal protection clause properly. Now, if they would only take it one step further and see that the Constitution gives no power to the government to define what marriage is.



That is an absurd thought.



He has been horrible on 4th amendment issues, the drug war, pardoning and commuting sentences, he outright waived the 6th amendment in his drone murder spree, his stimulus failed and just payed off cronies, he has been awful when it comes to school choice, and he has been awful when it comes to energy policy.



All the presidents since Eisenhower have been shit. Even Coolidge who I think was probably our last great president, made some bad decisions like appointed J. Edgar Hoover to any post whatsoever.
I don't completely agree with everything although my disagreements are minor. That said this is an outstanding post responding to a blind follower of his party~
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Old 05-26-2014, 01:24 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
What wars did he end? Afghanistan is still going on and Iraq was ended on a SOFA that was signed by Bush in Nov. 2008. I guess you can give credit to Obama for not reneging on the SOFA but that is stretching it.
It never ceases to amaze me that people make this claim.
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Old 05-26-2014, 01:40 PM   #70
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Old 05-26-2014, 01:42 PM   #71
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It never ceases to amaze me that people make this claim.
It never ceases to amaze me that anyone could think the fighting is over in Afghanistan.
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Old 05-26-2014, 01:51 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
What wars did he end? Afghanistan is still going on and Iraq was ended on a SOFA that was signed by Bush in Nov. 2008. I guess you can give credit to Obama for not reneging on the SOFA but that is stretching it.

He got involved in Libya which destabilized the country which is now on the brink of another civil war and led directly to one of our ambassadors being killed.



There is another bubble being blown up but I would hardly call what we have had a recovery. Some areas are doing better like energy but that was despite Obama rather than because of him.



Which we haven't seen the full disaster yet. Just wait till the employer mandate comes into effect. We are just at the tip of the iceberg.



I am not sure why. Politicians would be the last type of person I would want somebody to look up too.



Mostly done by the courts applying the equal protection clause properly. Now, if they would only take it one step further and see that the Constitution gives no power to the government to define what marriage is.



That is an absurd thought.



He has been horrible on 4th amendment issues, the drug war, pardoning and commuting sentences, he outright waived the 6th amendment in his drone murder spree, his stimulus failed and just payed off cronies, he has been awful when it comes to school choice, and he has been awful when it comes to energy policy.



All the presidents since Eisenhower have been shit. Even Coolidge who I think was probably our last great president, made some bad decisions like appointed J. Edgar Hoover to any post whatsoever.

OH-OH, now you did it. This is pretty darn accurate.


But...but...but...I get to KEEP my health care provider and my premium will go down! Wait, what?
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Old 05-26-2014, 01:55 PM   #73
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Old 05-26-2014, 02:00 PM   #74
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The lack of discourse in this thread is exactly the problem. Everybody wants to blame the other party and stick to party lines instead of actually owning their own responsibility.

Fact is, both parties suck. America is in decline and that started a long time ago and it started from main street up.
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Old 05-26-2014, 02:01 PM   #75
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Outstanding leadership and accountability across all phases of GOV and public sector including Foreign Affairs !

Only problem I see is running out of RED Pens in the Oval Office to Draw more Red Lines /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

other than that its been a great 6 years for everyone nothing but love here.
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